Turns over but will not run

Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
  • 2005 MINI COOPER S
  • 4 CYL
  • TURBO
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 113,976 MILES
My car quit on me. I thought It was the fuel pump, the reason? Several times in the last few months when I started the car it ran for a few seconds, then it would quit. After sitting for an hour or so it would start, then ran fine. Then last Tuesday I was heading to the store, got in the car started up fine. Pulled out onto the street and it just shut off. Did a search on you tube and online and a lot of the other people with mini coopers had the same problem with a bad fuel pump. So I bought a new fuel pump (Delphi brand) and fuel filter and replaced both. Got in the car and same thing. Turns over but refuses to start. I am at a lose where, or what to check next.
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Saturday, February 15th, 2020 AT 6:29 PM

78 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

First, make sure you hear the new fuel pump run for a couple seconds when you first turn the key on. Also, see if it starts for a couple seconds using starting fluid. If it does, then we know it is a fuel related issue. If it still doesn't start, and I have a feeling it won't, you need to check for ignition spark to the plugs and for fuel pressure. If the crank sensor is bad, it will shut down the fuel pump as well.

First, take a look through these links:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-crank-shaft-angle-sensor-works

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/crankshaft-angle-sensor-replacement

_________________________

Here are links to check fuel pressure and for spark to the plugs. Note, let me know what happens with the starting fluid before you go to the trouble of these tests.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

One last link This one helps identify causes of a crank no start condition.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

_________________________

If you determine that the sensor I mentioned is bad, it is not located in a traditional location. It is facing the front of the vehicle on the side of the engine block. It is approximately two thirds back from the front of the engine and below the manifold.

Check these things and let me know what you find.

Joe
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Saturday, February 15th, 2020 AT 6:53 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Joe, I have a few questions for you. I have not tried checking for spark yet, why? Because I am stubborn and feel it had to be fuel pump or crankshaft position sensor fro the symptoms it was giving out. After replacing both fuel filter and fuel pump, today I replaced the crankshaft position sensor, still does not start. When I replaced the fuel filter, is it possible I disturbed anything in the tank attached to the canister, and how would I use starting fluid on fuel injection?
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Friday, February 21st, 2020 AT 3:15 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
I am at a total lose now. I will check for spark tomorrow, and am even going to use a mirror and a flashlight to try to see if I can see if anything came loose on or around the fuel filter. I did check the fuse for the fuel pump, but another question I had was if this car has a fuel pump relay?
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Friday, February 21st, 2020 AT 3:17 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

You can spray starting fluid into the throttle body to see if it starts. The fuel pump relay is located under the dash. See pic 1

As far as the fuel filter, since it is part of the level sensor, you could have bumped wiring or a connector. If you look at picture 2, is that the filter you are referring to? Do you hear the pump actuate at all?

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, February 21st, 2020 AT 4:30 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Joe, yes that is the filter I am referring to, thank you for all your help. I will try those things this Saturday. Thanks again.
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Saturday, February 22nd, 2020 AT 3:38 AM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Joe, I tried the starter fluid with a buddy of mine, starts right up, runs when I keep my foot on the gas, but as soon as I release my foot it shuts off, does this give any indication as to what is wrong?
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Saturday, February 22nd, 2020 AT 12:30 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
I did replace the crankshaft position sensor on Friday.
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Saturday, February 22nd, 2020 AT 12:30 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Joe, one thing did do is run the car with starter fluid and ran it ling enough to run a diagnostic check and p0500 speed sensor came up, could that be a reason it wont start?
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Saturday, February 22nd, 2020 AT 2:26 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
No, if it ran on starting fluid, it isn't getting fuel. Have you checked fuel pressure? Also, here is a link that explains how to check injectors/injector pulse:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

I attached the fuel pressure testing above in an earlier post. I did, however, attach two pics to help. The second one shows where the gauge gets attached.

Let me know what you find.

Joe
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Saturday, February 22nd, 2020 AT 5:44 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
I will try the pressure test. Do I have to remove the intercooler, or supercharger to be able to get access to attach the tester?
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Saturday, February 22nd, 2020 AT 10:25 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Another thing I came by is online and YouTube shows a High Pressure Fuel Pump attached to engine on the supercharged minis. I am not seeing if mine has one. I am guessing it is under the super charger, inter-cooler?
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Saturday, February 22nd, 2020 AT 11:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

You have to remove the inter-cooler. Here are the directions. The picture attached correlates with the directions.

____________________________

2005 Mini Cooper S (R53) L4-1.6L SC (W11)
13 31 029 Checking Fuel Pump Delivery Pressure
Vehicle Powertrain Management Fuel Delivery and Air Induction Fuel Pump Fuel Pressure Testing and Inspection Component Tests and General Diagnostics 13 31 029 Checking Fuel Pump Delivery Pressure
13 31 029 CHECKING FUEL PUMP DELIVERY PRESSURE
Checking Fuel Pump Delivery Pressure

Turn off ignition.

On Cooper S remove intercooler.
- Protect the intercooler from damage.
- Intercooler sealing rings must always be installed dry, do not lubricate them.

- Remove intercooler cover retaining bolts.
- Remove intercooler cover.
- Remove sealing ring fixing bracket bolts and remove upper brackets.
- Remove intercooler cover mounting bracket bolts and remove brackets.
- Remove intercooler from right hand side.

Installing
- Check sealing rings for splits and cracks, replace as necessary.
- Ensure that intercooler sealing rings are correctly located.
- Install threaded sealing ring brackets at the bottom.

Torque:
- Intercooler cover to intercooler. 9 Nm
- Intercooler sealing ring bracket to sealing ring. 9 Nm
- Holding bracket to manifold. 9 Nm
- Supercharger outlet retaining bolts. 25 Nm
- Inlet manifold to intercooler pipe (left). 16 Nm

CAUTION!
The fuel in the fuel lines is under pressure (approx. 3 bar)! Catch and dispose of escaping fuel.

Pic 1

Remove fuel injector rail cover.
Remove dust cap (1) from measuring valve on fuel rail.

Start engine.

Measure fuel pressure.
Testing Pressure 3.0 0.2 bar. (MINI Cooper)
Testing Pressure 3.5 0.2 bar. (MINI Cooper S)

Switch off engine.

____________________________________________

As far as a high pressure pump, the only thing my manuals are showing on this year is the one in the fuel tank.

Let me know if this helps.

Joe
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Sunday, February 23rd, 2020 AT 7:23 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Joe, thank you for your response. I removed inter cooler and got to the fuel rail. Tried to read pressure, however there is non, including no fuel after attaching, unattaching fuel tester. I went to the filter canister and removed the fuel line on the top of canister and gas flowed out of that cap hole with the key in the on (but not cranking position). But no gas was present at fuel rail or at the testing valve. So at this point I am wondering if the fuel pressure regulator at the fuel rail is not working properly? Symptoms on line says if that is not working properly could cause the vehicle to not start, and or stall out, misfire, etc.
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Sunday, February 23rd, 2020 AT 11:03 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Okay, we are on the edge of identifying the problem. At least we now know why it won' t start. Now, when you remove the top of the canister and fuel flowed out, did it spray out with pressure? Also, when you say canister, are you referring to where you placed the fuel filter? Is it properly installed? If the fuel isn't under a lot of pressure when you remove it, cycle the key off and on. It should engage the pump for a second or so. Fuel should be under pressure. If it isn't, I suspect the pump is bad.

Let me know what you find.

Joe
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 7:04 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Joe, the canister is the fuel filter canister I am referring to. Which was difficult to work with it having it to stay in the tank. Sunday what I did was release the hose on top and turned the key on. By the time I noticed it was flowing out of the top of canister and not the hose there was a ton of fuel flowing out. I say flowing out as it did not appear to be spraying out. I will try it one more time in the morning and really take notice. It is a new Delphi fuel pump. I even took the time to try the old one the weekend before last and still did not start. Would suck a new pump is bad right out of the box.
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 8:44 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Joe, the canister is the fuel filter canister I am referring to. Which was difficult to work with it having it to stay in the tank. Sunday what I did was release the hose on top and turned the key on. By the time I noticed it was flowing out of the top of canister and not the hose there was a ton of fuel flowing out. I say flowing out as it did not appear to be spraying out. I will try it one more time in the morning and really take notice. It is a new delphi fuel pump. I even took the time to try the old one the werkend before last and still did not start. Would suck a new pump is bad right out of the box.
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 8:44 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

It happens. If the pump is working and there is no fuel to the rail, something is blocking it. Reassemble the canister and if possible, get a piece of fuel line, a T, and splice the fuel pressure gauge into the system at that point to check pressure.

If you find proper pressure, disconnect the fuel supply at the rail and try blowing compressed air through the fuel line to see if it is blocked.

Let me know.
Joe
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 8:54 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Joe, will giva a try, thank you.
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 9:00 PM
Tiny
MODELSINC1967
  • MEMBER
Joe, just read your response again, on the filter install I watched a YouTube video on removing and replacing the filter. I replaced the those little o-rings on both top and bottom of the filter and the large o-ring in the main body and put it back together. One thing that I was wondering about is when you install the canister back in place that notch that lines it up, I have to twist the whole unit a quarter inch to get it in the grove then put the ring back on it to seal it. Just curious why it is like that. I am going to return the fuel pump. Bought it on Amazon so I will have to wait up to 7 days for a return of funds to card. Then I will pick another one up in town, just in the event that one is faulty will not have to wait up to a week to exchange. So may be a week from now before I can let you know if it was the pump or something else.
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 10:29 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
I have a feeling you are on the right track. Let me know how things turn out for you. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions.

Take care,
Joe
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Tuesday, February 25th, 2020 AT 6:51 PM

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