No spark

Tiny
EASTZHANG
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 117 MILES
Hi, experts. I have a 2002 Dodge Caravan 3.3L. After I had put it in storage for a month, I couldn't start it but crank. Now I pulled it to a garage and got checked. First, no spark; then checked ignition coil was good, camshaft sensor was good, crankshaft sensor was good. So in the next step, we aimed to the PCM. OBDII code was P0601, but check engine light wasn't on. I have read a lot of threads about P0601. It looks like in most of the cases, drivers even don't notice the existance of the P0601. Is my car's problem related to this code? Is the problem related to the PCM? Is there any other possibilities other than PCM failure? I badly need help. I have heard I can plug in another same model's PCM to get it checked, is it true? Any suggestions? Thank you ahead.
From Kevin
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Tuesday, August 16th, 2011 AT 4:17 AM

34 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
The P601 is an inability to control memory so I don't think that will cause a no start. It still sound like a crankshaft angle sensor or the ASD relay is not working.

Here is a guide that will get you going in the right direction.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

Check the ASD by using this guide

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Also, check for voltage on the wire feeding the coil pack, (dark green / orange, I think), any injector, or either small wire on the back of the alternator. You should see 12 volts there for just one second when a helper turns on the ignition switch. That voltage should come back during cranking. If you never see voltage there, swap the automatic shutdown (ASD) relay with a different one and try again. If you have voltage for that first second, the relay is okay. If it doesn't reappear during cranking, the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor circuits must be diagnosed.

The crankshaft position sensor must be installed with a spacer to set the critical air gap. It requires either a thick paper spacer from the dealer or some aftermarket sensors have a thin plastic rib molded to the end.

Here is the relay and fuse locations (Below)
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Tuesday, August 16th, 2011 AT 5:04 AM
Tiny
EASTZHANG
  • MEMBER
Yes, I saw the 12V just after the helper turns on and came back during cranking. And I had also checked other leads. Other leads I guess should work like this, during cranking the resistance between one lead and ground should alternate between open and zero, and this didn't happen, it stayed open. So I had concluded that there were no pulse signals went to the ignition coil. Any idea? I ordered a new ASD relay just in case
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Tuesday, August 16th, 2011 AT 9:28 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
You can't measure resistance in a powered-up circuit. If you found voltage on the feed wire to the injectors and coil pack, the Engine Computer turned on the automatic shutdown (ASD) relay. That means it got pulses from the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor. Those are the pulses that tell it when to fire an injector and coil.

Originally you said there was no spark. Do you have it now? How did you check the coil pack?
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Wednesday, August 17th, 2011 AT 8:12 PM
Tiny
EASTZHANG
  • MEMBER
Thank you for reply.
I checked the coil like this:
1. I measured resistances between pins in the feeding plug, they were around 1.2ohms. The six big poles counld be divided in three groups, and the resistance between them were around 15k ohms.
2. I used another known good coil to connect to the feed plug, and plugged in one spark cable with a spark plug, there were no sparks appear.(The body of the spark plug touched ground)

For the feeding plug of the coil, I guess it works like this:
one prone provides +12V, the other three connect or disconnect to ground which is controlled by PCM. This connecting and disconnecting make pulses. If I put the plug into the coil, for sure I can't measure the resistance when the power is up; but if I leave the plug unconnected, there will be no power give to the three prone, so I think I can monitor the connecting and disconnecting by measure the resistance between one of the three prongs and ground. Am I right?
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Thursday, August 18th, 2011 AT 12:53 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
I never checked the resistances of the coil. It's unlikely all three would fail at once. If one fails, you'll just have two cylinders not firing.

The best way to approach this is to use a scanner that displays live sensor data, then watch the cam and crank sensor signals to see if they're listed as "no" or "present". I think you're going to find one of them missing.
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Thursday, August 18th, 2011 AT 1:07 AM
Tiny
EASTZHANG
  • MEMBER
Yep I installed the new ASD and it fired right up. Thanks for the tip you guys are great!
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Thursday, August 18th, 2011 AT 2:28 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Glad you could get it fixed, that kind of problem can be tough. Please use 2CarPros anytime we are here to help

Cheers
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Thursday, August 18th, 2011 AT 4:59 AM
Tiny
TOMEL
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 120,000 MILES
Electrical problem
2002 Dodge Caravan 6 cyl Two Wheel Drive Automatic 120000 miles

I was driving and started to feel hesitation in the engine, at the same time the engine light started flashing. I drove another 2 minutes looking for a place to stop and the engine died, and I could not start it again. Now engine turns over but van won't start. I checked and found that I had no spark. I had the followings codes:
1388 (Auto shutdown relay),
1389 (No Z1 or Z2 voltage seen by the computer when the auto shutdown relay is used),
353 (Coil #3 is not reaching peak current at the right time)
300 (Misfire detected in multiple cylinders.)
442 (A leak has been detected in the evaporative system)
455 (A large leak has been detected in the evaporative system)
456 (A small leak has been detected in the evaporative system)

I noticed a corroded ground braid on the left side of the engine (it fell apart when I touched it) so I used some jumper cables to ground the engine block thinking it's a grounding issue, but still no spark.
Any ideas where to start or what to change?
Thanks in advance,
Tom
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BMRFIXIT
  • EXPERT
Mark ASD relay and switch it with a similar relay
check fuses
suspect and check crank sensor
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
TOMEL
  • MEMBER
Thanks for the quick reply,
I checked the ASD relay and it's fine (replaced it with the wiper one to check). The ASD fuse however was blown. I replaced the fuse and am now able to start the van. It's still running rough like as if not on cylinders are firing (just like it did before it died).I disconnected the battery to clear the codes. I didn't run it long enough to have new codes come in, should I? I suspect that the ASD fuse will just blow again given enough time. The only code I have now is:
1684 (The battery has been disconnected within the last 50 starts.)
Since it is running (rough but running) could it still be the crank sensor? Or is a faulty coil pack more likely since I did get a p0353 error?
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BMRFIXIT
  • EXPERT
Check starting and but bad than I would look for a coil problem
if crank sensor bad it will not start at all or it will start and than stall and die
check fuel pressure
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
TOMEL
  • MEMBER
I checked the coil and found that coil 3 (cyl 3&6) was open, So I replaced the coil pack with a new and tested one (Tested using a multimeter, all coils read about 12k ohms). I started the van up again and still found that it was running rough, after about 30 sec the check engine light came on. I turned off the van and checked the codes again, and found that the
353 code is back (Coil #3 is not reaching peak current at the right time)
Not sure where to go from here.

Many thanks for all your help!
Tom
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BMRFIXIT
  • EXPERT
1. Possible causes for DTC to set are: defective ignition coil No. 3, defective PCM, or defective connectors or wiring.

2. Turn ignition off. Disconnect ignition coil connector. Turn ignition on. Using scan tool, actuate Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay. Using a test light connected to ground, probe Brown/White wire at ignition coil harness connector. If test light illuminates brightly, go to next step. If test light does not illuminate brightly, repair open or high resistance in Brown/White wire between ASD relay and ignition coil. ASD relay is located in Integrated Power Module (IPM). IPM is located on left side of engine compartment, next to battery.
3. Using a test light connected to positive battery voltage, probe Dark Blue/Orange wire at ignition coil harness connector while cranking engine for 5 seconds. If test light does not blink/flicker, go to next step. If test light blinks/flickers, replace ignition coil.
4. Turn ignition off. Ensure ignition coil is disconnected. Disconnect PCM connectors. PCM is located on left side of engine compartment, near front of battery. Measure resistance of Dark Blue/Orange wire between ignition coil harness connector and terminal No. 2 at PCM C1 harness connector. If resistance is less than 5 ohms, go to next step. If resistance is 5 ohms or more, repair open in Dark Blue/Orange wire.
5. Measure resistance between ground and Dark Blue/Orange wire at ignition coil harness connector. If resistance is 100 k/ohms or more, go to next step. If resistance is less than 100 k/ohms, repair short to ground in Dark Blue/Orange wire between ignition coil and PCM.
6. At this time, PCM is assumed to be defective. Replace PCM. Program the new PCM. See PROGRAMMING.
7. At this time, conditions for DTC to set do not exist or fault is an intermittent problem. Start engine and allow it to idle. Ensure engine is at normal operating temperature. Using scan tool, monitor parameters related to DTC while wiggling connectors and wiring harness. If value changes while wiggling connectors and wiring harness, repair connectors and wiring harness where wiggling caused value to change. If value does not change, review Freeze Frame data using scan tool. Attempt to duplicate condition that caused DTC to set. Check for any related technical service bulletins that may apply. Visually inspect related connectors and wiring harness. Repair connectors and wiring harness as necessary
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RICHARD ALFORD
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 82,000 MILES
Electrical problem
2002 Dodge Caravan 6 cyl Two Wheel Drive Automatic 82000 miles

every thing seems to be working but have no spark but have power to the coil what should I do?
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER
No sparky

No snapping blue spark continue to troubleshoot the ignition system-power input to the coil/coil packs, distributor pick-up coil, ignition control module, cam and crank sensors- Note: If it doesn't apply disregard it
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BUDGUY
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 160,000 MILES
Engine Mechanical problem
2002 Dodge Caravan 6 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 160000 miles

battery good charge, plugs and wires good, no power on the wires going to coil with a test light. Someone took my van for a joyride and ditched it on the drivers side, under the drivers side wheel-well there's a computer that looks damaged, will this computer stop my van from having spark or is there another problem lying somewhere? Van ran great until it was ditched. Please help.
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Are you saying the computer is between the tire and the inner fender?
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BUDGUY
  • MEMBER
Spoke with the dodge dealer and they said it's the tcm and should not be why there's no power to the coil. That as long as the Id is the same I can change it out. It's between the fender and inner fender on the front drivers side, but why won't my reader work and why is there no spark or even power to the coil
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BUDGUY
  • MEMBER
Did the key bump on off on off on and get P1388 ASD Auto shutdown relay circuit. Is my relay bad? Or does it show this code and something else may be to blame. Had a visual inspection of wiring and all looks ok. Can anyone start me in the right direction in regards to the asd? Please. Thanks!
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
That is why you have no spark. Have you checked the relay?
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Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM (Merged)

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