Hard starting when cold

Tiny
ALJ
  • MEMBER
  • 1992 DODGE DAYTONA
  • 3.9L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • 260,000 MILES
Last few months has not started on 1st crank when cold but does all day after that. Changed plugs and wires, distributor cap and rotor, fuel pump and filter. Choke is closed when cold. Might have forgotten any more changes. Thought it could be the fuel pressure regulator but part I got that is suppose to be that part doesn't seem to be any where on carburetor. Vehicle listed above has a 3.9l mpfi, dual port carburetor.
Monday, November 2nd, 2020 AT 11:29 PM

68 Replies

Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Good morning,

You stated multiport fuel injected. There is no choke on a fuel injection system.

Can you post a picture of the throttle body or carburetor you have?

Cold start extended crank could be from fuel pump loosing its prime over night which means it could be a bad injector leaking or the check valve in the pump.

Can you test the fuel pressure when cold to see if there is any pressure in the system

Fuel Pressure* .................... 331 ± 14 kPa (48 ± 2 psi)

Ignition key ON, engine OFF. Using DRB scan tool, access ASD Fuel System Test. The ASD Fuel System Test will activate the fuel pump and pressurize the system.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

I attached a picture of the regulator for you as well.

The fuel pressure regulator is mounted to the fuel rail assembly at the opposite end from the fuel inlet line. The intake plenum must be removed to access the fuel pressure regulator.

Roy

Warning: The fuel system is under constant pressure, even when the engine is OFF. Always release fuel pressure before servicing any fuel system component.

Removal

1. Release fuel system pressure.
2. Remove the fuel rail.
3. Remove 2 attaching bolts and remove fuel pressure regulator from fuel rail. Inspect O-ring for damage or wear and replace if necessary.
4. Loosen and remove fuel return hose.

Installation

1. Lube fuel pressure O-ring with clean engine oil prior to installation. Press regulator into fuel rail, attach 2 mounting bolts and torque to 8.7 Nm (77 lb-in).
2. Install fuel return hose and torque to 1 Nm (10 lb-in).

Note: ASD and fuel pump relays remain energized for 7 minutes during the following test, unless the test is stopped or the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position.

5. Using scan tool, place ignition switch in "run" position and use Actuate Output Test Auto Shutdown (ASD) Relay", to activate fuel pump and pressurize system.
6. Check for leaks.
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Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 AT 7:29 AM
Tiny
ALJ
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Raining today. Have to wait until Wednesday, maybe no rain. Don't have a scanner for this year. When I try to use the key on off on off on routine to get dash trouble shot read out there is no code flashes showing up. Also no gauge to test fuel pressure.
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Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 AT 11:33 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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You can rent a tester at a parts store.

Get back to us when you can

Roy
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Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 AT 11:39 AM
Tiny
ALJ
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Okay, just got this. Have photo for you thanks, Al
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Wednesday, November 4th, 2020 AT 12:03 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Let me know the results of the fuel pressure test.

Roy
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Wednesday, November 4th, 2020 AT 3:54 AM
Tiny
ALJ
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  • 36 POSTS
I will let you know, will be a few days though. Just one auto parts store in town and they don't rent testers and to buy very pricey. Am ordering one on line so will take a few days to get. Thanks, will get back to you asap. Thanks again. Al
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Thursday, November 5th, 2020 AT 11:08 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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You are welcome.

Always glad to help.

Roy
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Thursday, November 5th, 2020 AT 11:15 AM
Tiny
ALJ
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
I've had to use my truck a couple of times and both times when I turn on the key I can not hear the fuel pump pumping. After many times of cranking it over a few seconds each time the pump finally starts pumping, it pumps for quite awhile but when it stops pumping the truck will start. Today when I used it it was hard starting again after I stopped for gas. So it is getting worse. Haven't got the new fuel pressure controller installed yet. Working out side and weather not cooperating. It appears the controller is under several hoses at the back of the passenger side of engine. Is that the location of it? Thanks again, Al James. Pressure gauge not here yet.
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Thursday, November 12th, 2020 AT 10:43 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, controller? Do you mean the relay? The ECM is what controls the fuel pump relay based on the input from the ignition system.

I attached the wiring diagram for you as well as the location of the fuel pump relay.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

Roy

FUEL PUMP MODULE REMOVAL:

WARNING: The fuel system is under constant pressure, even when the engine is OFF. Always release fuel pressure before servicing any fuel system component.

Fuel Hose Fitting On Fuel Pump Module
imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

1. Release fuel pressure.
2. Drain fuel tank.
3. Remove fuel tank.
4. While holding the fuel pump module down, remove the locknut, (locknut is threaded onto tank). Use a brass drift to loosen the fuel pump locknut. After the locknut has been removed release the fuel pump module and it will spring up from the fuel tank.
5. Remove the fuel pump module from the fuel tank.

DISASSEMBLY
Fuel Gauge Sending Unit And In-Tank Filter
imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

FUEL GAUGE SENDING UNIT REMOVAL
1. Remove sending unit attaching screws from mounting bracket located on the side of the fuel pump reservoir.
2. Disconnect electrical connections from sending unit, and remove sending unit.

IN-TANK FUEL FILTER REMOVAL
1. Pry back the fuel filter mounting tabs and pull the fuel filter off of the fuel pump module.

NOTE: The fuel pump is not serviceable, if the pump is defective replace the whole fuel pump module.

ASSEMBLY
Fuel Gauge Sending Unit And In-Tank Filter
imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

FUEL GAUGE SENDING UNIT INSTALLATION

1. Connect the electrical connections to the sending unit.
2. Install sending unit onto the fuel reservoir, and tighten the mounting screws.

IN-TANK FUEL FILTER INSTALLATION

1. Snap the fuel filter onto the mounting tabs of the fuel reservoir.

FUEL PUMP MODULE INSTALLATION

NOTE: Locknut and gasket must be replaced whenever the fuel pump module is serviced.

1. Wipe seal area of tank clean, and install a new seal on pump.
2. Install locknut over top of fuel pump module.
3. Push fuel pump module into the tank and hold with one hand while tightening the locknut with the other hand.
4. Install fuel tank assembly.
NOTE: ASD and fuel pump relays remain energized for 7 minutes during the following test, unless the test is stopped or the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position.
5. Using scan tool, place ignition switch in "RUN" position and use Actuate Output Test Auto Shutdown (ASD) Relay", to activate fuel pump and pressurize system.
6. Check for leaks.
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Friday, November 13th, 2020 AT 4:35 AM
Tiny
ALJ
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The part I have doesn't have an electrical connection. It is suppose to be the fuel pressure controller. It looks more like a vacuum tube connection. I went on rockauto. Com to identify the and FPC and that was the part shown but it looked too big and I couldn't figure how it could control the pressure with out an electrical connection. I thought it was the wrong part so went to parts store and ordered a FPC and they sent the same part as rock auto had. I put a new fuel pump in thinking it was the problem. I'll have more time in morning to review the rest of your reply and reply further. Thanks, Al.
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Saturday, November 14th, 2020 AT 12:13 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Can you send me a picture of the part?

There is a fuel pressure regulator but that just limits the pressure to the manufacturers specs.

Roy

The fuel pressure regulator is a mechanical device not controlled by the Engine Controller. The regulator is a vacuum balanced nonadjustable type mounted on the output end of the fuel rail, and connected to intake manifold vacuum. The fuel return tube is mounted to the pressure regulator. The regulator is calibrated to maintain fuel pressure at 214 kPa (31 psi), with vacuum applied at idle. With vacuum disconnected the fuel pressure will run 55-69 kPa (8-10 psi) higher. The regulator contains a diaphragm, calibrated spring, and a fuel return valve. Fuel pressure operates on one side of the regulator, while spring pressure and intake manifold vacuum operate on the other side. Spring pressure on one side of the diaphragm tries to force the return valve closed. Fuel pressure on the other side of the diaphragm, with assistance from manifold vacuum on the spring side of the diaphragm, act against spring pressure to open the return valve. System fuel pressure is the amount of fuel pressure required to force against spring pressure and unseat the return valve.
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Saturday, November 14th, 2020 AT 4:20 AM
Tiny
ALJ
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  • 36 POSTS
Should have photos. As you can see there is no test port on the side of the part I have, as it appears the regulator in the drawing has a test port on the side. Also appears from drawing that the regulator is on the driver side at back of motor. Is that the correct placement? I'll have to check again but thought I saw the part on the back on passenger side.
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Monday, November 16th, 2020 AT 3:35 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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According to the picture, it is on the driver's side at the back of the rail.

Double-check again to confirm.

Roy
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Monday, November 16th, 2020 AT 3:42 PM
Tiny
ALJ
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Thanks. Hope to get out and under on Tuesday. Pressure tester came today. Al.
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Monday, November 16th, 2020 AT 4:22 PM
Tiny
ALJ
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Still dodging rain and snow but did grab a peek at the regulator. However, I don't see any bolts holding it on. Don't see how it comes off. The regulator on the truck has several tubes and the test valve on it and it looks like its one whole unit. Doesn't look like the end piece, like I have, comes off.
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Wednesday, November 18th, 2020 AT 1:53 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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I attached the procedure for replacing it.

There is a snap ring holding it in. I attached a picture for you.

Roy

REMOVAL

1. Release fuel system pressure.
2. Disconnect negative battery cable, and remove air cleaner assembly.
3. Disconnect vacuum hose from throttle body.
Fuel Pressure Regulator Removal
imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

4. Using snap ring pliers, remove snap ring and pressure regulator.
5. Remove O-rings from regulator.

INSTALLATION

1. Install new O-rings on regulator.
2. Push regulator into fuel rail, with vacuum nipple pointed straight up.
3. Install snap ring.
4. Connect vacuum hose to regulator.
5. Connect negative battery cable, start engine and check for leaks.
6. Install air cleaner assembly.
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Wednesday, November 18th, 2020 AT 2:21 PM
Tiny
ALJ
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Okay, thanks. I was thinking maybe a ring was holding it in. Not easy to see that. Suppose to stop raining Thursday so fingers crossed. Do you think that will fix it or maybe a leak of pressure some where?
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Wednesday, November 18th, 2020 AT 3:33 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Let us see what happens when you change it. Based on your input, it needs to be replaced.

Roy
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Thursday, November 19th, 2020 AT 1:18 AM
Tiny
ALJ
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Well, after getting another pliers set and getting wife's two hands and all our thumbs we managed to get the ring off and new unit in. Cursing the engineers for putting it where they did. Working backwards in a mirror. However, tried to start after and no change. Did not hear fuel pump engage even after turning key off and on several times. What now? Any ideas? There was a little gas drip out when we got the old regulator off.
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Saturday, November 21st, 2020 AT 4:37 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, you will need to go to the fuel pump and check for voltage to the pump to see if the ECM is commanding it on.

Roy
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Saturday, November 21st, 2020 AT 5:03 PM

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