2002 Saturn SL2 02 SL2 Won't start

Tiny
BRAHMABULL
  • 2002 SATURN SL2

Electrical problem
2002 Saturn SL2 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 70,000 miles

Helping my brother repair his 02 SL2. It's been sitting for several years and now he's getting it on the road. It cranks but won't start. Replaced the plugs and wires since they needed to be changed anyway, no luck. Checked and it doesn't have spark. Had the ignition coil packs checked and they're good. Tried hooking a diagnostic scanner up to it but it doesn't connect with the computer. I suspect the computer or the wiring to it. Anyone have a wiring schematic or any other suggestions. BTW I don't know if the fuel pump is pumping either. If the computer isn't powering up would the fuel pump work?

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Tuesday, August 3rd, 2010 AT 11:07 PM

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Tiny
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The first thing I would check is that the battery is good and charged the battery cable's are clean and tight. Make sure all the fuse's are good in the under hood fuse box especially the ecm one also check all the fuse's in the inside fuse box. When you first turn the key to the run position go to the inside fuse box and see if the fuel pump relay click's on then off.

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Wednesday, August 4th, 2010 AT 12:46 AM
Tiny
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Thanks for the help SaturnTech9! The battery is charged and the connections are tight. I checked all the fuses under the hood and in the car and they are all good. I checked out the fuel pump relay in the car and it didn't click when we turned the key to "run". So I unplugged the relay from the socket and tested the relay and it's good. I'm familiar with this relay. I put 12VDC across terminals 85 and 86 and the relay clicked. So I put my meter on the socket at 85 and 86 and didn't get anything when we turned the key to "run". What controls that relay? Also, I didn't see a fuse labeled "ECM" under the hood but did see "PCM". Is that the same thing or do I need to check something else? Thanks in advance

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Wednesday, August 4th, 2010 AT 9:39 PM
Tiny
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You said the scan tool doesn't talk to the computer we need to start there with all that you describe. No voltage to fuel pump no spark. Yes you would check the pcm fuse and make sure you have power to both sides of it with the key in the run position. If your scan tool doesn't have batteries in it will the scan tool power up off the car?

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Thursday, August 5th, 2010 AT 11:17 AM
Tiny
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Yes, checked both sides of the PCM fuse and both sides are +12vdc with the key on and go to -12vdc with the key off. I'll get my buddy's scanner and try it without the batteries tonite. Is the PCM and ECM the same thing? Does the ECM/PCM turn on the fuel pump?

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Thursday, August 5th, 2010 AT 2:03 PM
Tiny
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Alright here's the difference if your car had a manual transmission you would have a ecm engine control module. Since you have a automatic transmission you have a pcm power train control module when ever you combine the engine computer and the transmission computer together like they did on your car then it's a pcm when they have the engine computer by itself it's a ecm. Also when they have the transmission computer by itself for a automatic it's called a tcm transmission control module. Let me know if the your buddies scanner powers up.

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Thursday, August 5th, 2010 AT 2:36 PM
Tiny
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OK, thanks. I tried my buddy's scanner. I took the battery out of it and it did try to connect with the car but ultimately it said "no response from vehichle". The scanner is an Actron Super Auto Scanner.

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Thursday, August 5th, 2010 AT 3:10 PM
Tiny
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Should I assume since the scanner powered up from the car the connections are good? Is there a way to check the pcm off the car?

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Friday, August 6th, 2010 AT 8:40 AM
Tiny
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That just will test if your dlc has power and ground to power up the scan tool. On your car it has to go thru your a few computer's to get to your pcm.I emailed you the trouble tree and wire diagrams so you can see what's going on. Just so you know the first thing the trouble tree asks if you can talk to the bcm/body control module your buddies scanner can't talk to bcm. So the only thing your buddies scanner can read code's from and see data is the tcm and pcm. So you will have to wing it.

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Friday, August 6th, 2010 AT 2:27 PM
Tiny
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Also make sure all fuse's are good inside and out check and make sure the bcm fuse has power to both side's of it.

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Friday, August 6th, 2010 AT 2:28 PM
Tiny
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Dont see a fuse labeled bcm. Could it be called something else?

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Saturday, August 7th, 2010 AT 4:48 PM
Tiny
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http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/416332_2002_SL2_fuses_1.jpg


Check these four.

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Sunday, August 8th, 2010 AT 1:01 AM
Tiny
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Okay I tested all fuses and they all do what there supposed to as you said except the radio fuse it stay hot at all times. There is no radio in the car at the moment. Any ideas what the problem is. Also I want to thank you for all your help.

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Tuesday, August 10th, 2010 AT 10:32 AM
Tiny
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Alright the problem with you not being able to talk to the pcm is that to talk to the pcm you have to go thru the bcm. If there is a problem with the bcm then it can cut off talking to the pcm. If you had a scanner that could talk to the bcm then you could start by seeing if you could talk to the bcm and go from there. Also see what code's the bcm might have that could help you find the problem. But scanner that can read the bcm are real expensive.I emailed you a wire diagram of the path from where you plug the scanner in to it going thru the bcm thru the abs if you have it then to your pcm it's the purple wire you would have to check for a complete circuit from where you plug the scanner in to the pcm under the hood. The bcm is under the under the dash top. Disarm the air bag's first then take the dash top off there's 2 bolt's above the passenger air bag remove those then it's just clip's along the edge of the dash holding it in. Be careful of the vin plate getting hooked on the dash top. Then you can follow that purple wire. Also with the key on make sure that the bcm has power and ground going to it I emailed you a wire diagram for it also.

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Tuesday, August 10th, 2010 AT 6:38 PM
Tiny
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Ok, I took the dash off and followed the purple wire. It seemed ok, so I checked all the other wiring I could see where the dash is and it all looked good. I had another buddy come by with a different scanner. His scanner is a high end model that could talk to a bcm. So he used it to scan the car and he said it was communicating to the bcm. The only code it threw was "B3785" but we didn't know what that was. Do you have any idea?
Seems like I need to try a new PCM but I don't have the $550+ the dealer is quoting me so I'm going to try one from a salvage yard which has a 30 day guarantee.
Also, in the dash, behind the radio near the fuse panel is some sort of un-insulated ground strap/wire with a quick-dissconnect on the end. I don't see where it plugs into. Any ideas as to what that is?

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Sunday, August 15th, 2010 AT 12:32 PM
Tiny
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That code is for the high blow relay I emailed you the trouble tree for it. If you followed the trouble I sent you to trace down why you cant talk to the pcm and everything check's out and you checked all the power's and ground's to the pcm?That you had all the wire's that were power and ground going to the pcm had power and ground going to them then I would be looking at possibly a bad pcm. That ground strap behind the radio should go to the radio. There should be a tab on the radio to hook it too.

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Monday, August 16th, 2010 AT 1:05 AM
Tiny
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OK, got all the electrical squared away. Replaced the PCM from one from a salvage yard. Still crank but no start but the fuel pump relay is clicking now. I don't hear the fuel pump when the relay is on. Scanner reads no codes. Isn't there a harness in the trunk where I can read power and ground to the fuel pump? The car WILL run for a few seconds if I put gas directly into the throttle body, so I know I've got ignition. Also, since the cars been sitting for several years could the gas be seperated or varnished which is preventing the pump from working. Any suggestions?

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Saturday, August 21st, 2010 AT 10:04 AM
Tiny
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http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/416332_2002_SL2_pass_lock_learn_1.jpg


Glad to hear you can talk to the pcm now.It sound's like you just need to learn the pass lock since you changed the pcm you will have to do that.I posted how to do that do that procedure 3 time's in a row and on the fourth time you crank it it should start.Let me know how it goes.

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Saturday, August 21st, 2010 AT 5:13 PM
Tiny
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I had to replace the fuel pump, as it was totally varnished over in the fuel tank due to sitting with gas in the tank for several years. Pump is now pumping. I did the pass lock sequence. Car still doesn't start. Is there anything that needs to be resyncronized or reprogrammed since I put a different PCM on the car, especially concerning the crank sensor or cam sensor?

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Wednesday, August 25th, 2010 AT 6:22 PM
Tiny
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Does the security light stay on solid or flash when it's not starting. When you relearned the pass lock did the light go out between each cycle of the key?There is no cam sensor the crank sensor even if it wasn't learned it will still start. What yr and model car did you get the pcm from?Do you have spark and injector pulse and fuel pressure if so what is your fuel pressure?

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Wednesday, August 25th, 2010 AT 7:46 PM
Tiny
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OK, got it running! We didn't do the pass lock correctly. When we did the sequence again the car fired right up. Now all we have to do is some minor glass replacement and we'll have the car running again. Thanks so much for your help! Couldn't have done it without your input and tech sheets!

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Saturday, August 28th, 2010 AT 7:30 PM

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