Engine Stopped Suddenly No Spark?

Tiny
WILLIAM PENDLEY
  • MEMBER
Mr. Steve awesomeness thank you. I will change out ICM and let you know how it goes. Lee!
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WILLIAM PENDLEY
  • MEMBER
Mr. Steve, would a bad relay in the fuse box under the hood cause this kind of issue? I don't know that's why I come to you.
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
Nope, The ICM controls it all when it comes to the spark plugs. It determines which plug and when to fire. A bad relay would knock out the entire module so you have no spark at all. Same if it was a bad crankshaft or camshaft sensor, they would shut off all spark.
The wiring diagram is the modules connections. Notice the pins saying coils 1-4? Those are what tells which coil to fire. Check them over to be sure there is no corrosion or bad connection for the one labeled coil 1 (pin 11) That would be the only spot other than a bad coil, plug wires or plugs that would stop spark on cylinder 1.

Here is the theory of operation for your DIS system.

The Distributorless Ignition System (DIS) module performs the following important functions:
- provides a ground for the ignition system through two of the module mounting screws
- selects which ignition coil within the coil pack to fire
- contains solid-state electronic switches that control current to the coil primary circuits within each coil pack
- limit current flow in each coil primary circuit to a maximum of 5.5 amps
- generate the Ignition Diagnostic Monitor (IDM) signal; this provides diagnostic information about the ignition system to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM).
- provide Failure Mode Effects Management (FMEM) operation.

The second item in that list is the important one in your case. The module selects which coil to fire and when based on the signals it gets.

CONSTRUCTION
The DIS ignition module is a thick film integrated design. The module contains a ceramic substrate thick film assembly and four output drivers mounted on a metal base plate and potted in a plastic housing.

OPERATION
The DIS ignition module receives the PIP (Profile Ignition Pickup) and CID (Cylinder Identification Device) signals from the crankshaft sensor and Spark Output (SPOUT) signal from the PCM. During normal operation, PIP is sent to the PCM from the crankshaft timing sensor and provides base timing and RPM information. The CID signal provides the DIS ignition module with the information required to synchronize the ignition coils so that they are fired in proper sequence. The SPOUT signal contains optimum spark timing and dwell time information. Spark angle is determined by the rising edge of SPOUT, while the falling edge of SPOUT controls the coil current "ON" or "DWELL" time. The dwell time is controlled or varied by varying the duty cycle of the SPOUT signal.
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WILLIAM PENDLEY
  • MEMBER
Mr Steve. Sorry it took so long to get back with you. I put another ICM in and seems to be working okay. Also put new relays in. Now I have a hard time starting it. It cranks awesome just so very hard to get it started. First ignition key turn motor jumps like it going to start then doesn't. I have to turn key off wait a few sec then turn the key again. I do this about 15 to 20 times be for it starts. When it does start the fumes from exhaust burns my eyes. Any ideas?
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WILLIAM PENDLEY
  • MEMBER
Mr. Steve would the inertia switch have anything to do with the starting issues?
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
EDWARD J JASINSKI
  • MEMBER
  • 1993 FORD RANGER
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 120,000 MILES
Have charged battry, new module, starter tests fine, and new ignition switch
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
2CEXPT
  • MEMBER
1993 Ford Ranger no spark

No snapping blue spark continue to troubleshoot the ignition system-power input to the coil/coil packs, coil's resistances, cap and rotor /distributor pick-up coil, ignition control module, ECM, Ignitor cam and crank sensors- Note: If it doesn't apply disregard it
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
The inertia switch would shut the fuel pump off and the engine wouldn't run at all so I doubt it is the issue. I would recheck the firing order and wires. It sounds like there is an issue with the timing or firing order. That would push fuel fumes out as well and in a cold engine they would cause some nasty fumes.
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WILLIAM PENDLEY
  • MEMBER
Yes sir, will get out there tomorrow an try what you said. Thank you and will get back to you on what I find out!
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WILLIAM PENDLEY
  • MEMBER
Mr. Steve. Is the firing order side the drivers side plugs and coils.
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WILLIAM PENDLEY
  • MEMBER
I went a head and did all of them this morning. It was 38 here cold. I turned the key and it started right up and no fumes. Purrs like a kitten. You are awesomeness. Thank you so much. If ever I have any problems again you are the one I want to talk to. You truly know your stuff. Thanks again my brother. Lee !
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
LSTADE
  • MEMBER
  • 1993 FORD RANGER
Engine Mechanical problem
1993 Ford Ranger Four Wheel Drive Manual

Pickup has a 3.0 engine. It died on me, restarted after 10 minutes, ran fine rest of day, then next morning wouldn't start. There is no spark. Have checked CAM sensor, distributor, fuses. All are ok. Where is the ICM and any ideas on what else we can check?
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
2CEXPT
  • MEMBER
No snapping blue spark continue to troubleshoot the ignition system-power input to the coil/coil packs,coil's resistances,distributor pick-up coil, ignition control module, cam and crank sensors and computer Note: If it doesn't apply disregard it.

See below:


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/12900_i_5.jpg



In left front of engine bay,on upper radiator support.
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
Great to hear you figured it out. 38 is almost cold. LOL If you have any other automotive questions we will be here. Thank you for using 2CarPros.
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WILLIAM PENDLEY
  • MEMBER
Mr. Steve, it is me again lol. Went to start her up and it was hard to start. I noticed the fuel pump turn on when I turn her over and wouldn't turn off. After 5 or 6 tries turning her over the first time the fuel pump turned on then clicked off she cranked right up and ran great! Why would a fuel pump stay on when key is turn to on position? Any idea?
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
Could be a relay that is starting to fail. The way the circuit works is simple, When you turn the key on, the PCM then turns on the pump relay for about 2 seconds, this is to bring the fuel pressure up in the event that any has leaked down while it sat. Then the relay turns off. When you turn the key to start it turns it on again and once the PCM sees an RPM signal of more that 120 rpm it turns the relay on full time and the engine runs. If the PCM sees that RPM signal drop below 120 or stop it shuts the pump relay off. If the relay contacts get bad they can stick. Another reason they can fail is if the fuel pump itself is starting to go bad and it's drawing excessive current. When that happens the contacts can spot-weld themselves together. That isn't hard to test but it takes an ammeter that can read up to 20 amps. Then you put it between the power feed and the pumps power lead. If you see around 5-8 amps it should be fine. Higher than that could be a bad pump. Personally I'd just replace the relay and see how it acts. If it has never been changed it's probably just worn out.
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WIGGEY
  • MEMBER
  • 1992 FORD RANGER
Suddenly my tired old Ranger doesn't start. I have no spark at all, so I have taken the ign. Module & the primary coil to O'rielly's & they both checked ok. Best I can figure it must be the crank position sensor, or the ECM itself. Thinking the ECM is seldom the problem, that leaves the CPS. Due to the high cost of this part I need to be positive the current one is bad before buying a new one, I need to figure out a way to test the old one. Any idea's? Also, the main connector from the CPS is a 4 wire plug. The CPS also has a single wire with connector coming out of the same wiring bundle. What is this single wire for? The power to the CPS? The signal from the CPS to the Ign. Control module? If possible I want to test the CPS w/o removing it.
I thank you in advance for any help you can give. Wiggey
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:46 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BMRFIXIT
  • EXPERT
When you turn key on do you have check engine light on
if no light check fuses and relays
you can use an ohm meter to test CPS
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:46 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WIGGEY
  • MEMBER
As to the check engine light, it is on only as it does when first starting to verify it works. Besides, I removed the battery so wouldn't that have erased any codes it had set? It was not on previously that I remember. Perhaps if I just crank it with the starter for 15-20 seconds might that set a code?
I will check all fuses again, but I do not know how to check a relay other than to remove the relay in question and swap it with another identical relay.
The test procedure I found for the CPS says this:
Measure voltage between the CID terminal & grnd by backprobing the connector. Sensoi is ok if voltage varies more than 0.1 volt with engine running at various RPM. Hell, If the engine WAS running, I wouldn't even BE testing the CPS, would I?
Can I unplug the connector from the CPS & take a reading from the CID terminal & ground by just turning engine over with the starter?
Again I thank you in advance for your assistance.
Wiggey
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:46 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BMRFIXIT
  • EXPERT
With key on and check engine light comes on, that will suggest that the computer is powered and its fuse and relay in working condition
as for a crank sensor you can disconnect it and check is using an ohm meter or volts meter (ac volts should generate as you crank if sensor any good )
also I would check for battery power at the coil terminals

check TIMING BELT
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Wednesday, July 29th, 2020 AT 11:46 AM (Merged)

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