Lack of Acceleration

Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Hi, long time, anyway I finally bought the complete throttle body for the ford bus but it didnt accelerate but I notice that it started quiclkly and it idle without shaking. When I checked several times the codes left are P2104 and P2112 but when at idling Po193 and Po451 flashes but finally they went off and is now left with P2112 and p2104. So please where is the fault now with these 2 DTC. Thanks
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Saturday, February 26th, 2011 AT 11:49 AM
Tiny
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Please I forgot to add that the Ford throttle position is 12.4%(percent)maximum.I dont know why it is low like this. Thanks
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Saturday, February 26th, 2011 AT 4:42 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Those are faults for the Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) sensor and I would suggest getting another APP to test.
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Sunday, February 27th, 2011 AT 11:25 AM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Thanks a lot. Are you saying that P2112 and P2104 are for the accelerator pedal, so I need not to bother myself with the PCM. Is it the switch which the pedal is plugged to or the switch attached to the pedal. Besides sombody said P2112 has to do with the PCM damage or what do you think bcos I have absolute confidence in your expertise advice. Finally if I changed the Accelerator pedal, everything will be over.I remember that when all these started, I loosed the Accelerator Pedal to checked inside and even dried it in the sun, perhaps somtin has spoilt inside. Thanks again
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Monday, February 28th, 2011 AT 3:13 PM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Please are you talking about the complete pedal itself or the pedal sensor and where is the location of the sensor. Thanks
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Monday, February 28th, 2011 AT 3:21 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Most likely you have damaged the APP when you loosened it. That is the part that you have to replace.
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Monday, February 28th, 2011 AT 3:32 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Refer to diagram for location.
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Monday, February 28th, 2011 AT 3:39 PM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Thanks but are you saying that it is the complete Accelerator pedal or what do you mean by APP bcos in the diagram I cant find the pedal where we place our legs
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Monday, February 28th, 2011 AT 3:55 PM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Please you did not tell me if the PCM is not an issue so that I will be sure that I just have to face only the Accelerator Pedal, also you did not talk about the P2104 perhaps it is not an issue. Thanks a lot my brother
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Monday, February 28th, 2011 AT 5:24 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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APP is above the accelerator pedal.

The PCM could also be faulty and you need to go step by step. Replacing the TPS have already resolved some problems and the APP might resolve some others. P2104 is also a fault with the APP and you are replacing it so we get to worry about it later if it still appears.
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Tuesday, March 1st, 2011 AT 1:45 PM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Thanks a lot, but whenever I press the accelerator pedal down and start the vehicle it will refuse to start no matter how I try but once I release it it starts immediately. Does it means that there is power or connection to the pedal or its sensor. Besides when the vehicle is idling and I remove the air filter to check the throttle plate it is usually at close position but the vehicle idle normally without shaking unlike the former throttle body. Can you please explain this situation for me to really understand the real problem
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Tuesday, March 1st, 2011 AT 4:19 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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You have a trouble code P2104 and P2112 indicating that the APP is not working correctly. When you use the accelerator pedal the reading is out therefore you would not be able to start. When pedal is not depressed, the reading could be correct allowing vehicle to be started.
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Tuesday, March 1st, 2011 AT 6:20 PM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Thanks a lot. Please is it the complete Accelerator Pedal Assembly or just the APP sensor. And where is the location of the sensor, besides is there any test to carry out to know if the APP is bad. Secondly is there any way they test the PCM to know if any circuit has gone bad.
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Wednesday, March 2nd, 2011 AT 7:22 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
PINPOINT TEST DK: ACCELERATOR PEDAL POSITION (APP) SENSOR

INTRODUCTION
NOTE: The following DTCs should be diagnosed and repaired through POWERTRAIN DTC CHARTS & DESCRIPTIONS and the appropriate service repair article respectively before entering pinpoint tests DK or DV:

P0715
P0720
P0731-P0735
P0102-P0104
P0321
C1165
U1027

This pinpoint test is intended to diagnose the following:

accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor (9F836)
harness circuits: ETCRTN, SIGRTN, ETCREF, APP1, APP2, and APP3
powertrain control module (PCM) (12A650)

Fig. 30: Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) Sensor Connector

For PCM connector views or reference values, refer to diagram # 3.

TEST PROCEDURE

DK1 CHECK FOR DTCS
Are DTCs P2104, P2121, P2122, P2123, P2126, P2127, P2128, P2131, P2132, or P2133 present?

Yes : GO to DK2.

No : For a lack/loss of power, GO to DK2. For all others, GO to
DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) CHARTS AND DESCRIPTIONS.

DK2 CHECK THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL FOR OBSTRUCTION
Key ON, engine OFF.
Press the accelerator pedal fully to the floor and release.

Does the pedal move freely to the floor and back?

Yes : GO to DK3.

No : ISOLATE and REPAIR the obstruction. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK3 CHECK THE APP SENSOR SIGNAL VOLTAGE RANGES FOR THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL FULLY APPLIED AND RELEASED POSITIONS

Access the PCM and monitor the APPS1, APPS2 and APPS3 PIDs.
Press the accelerator pedal fully to the floor and release.

ACCELERATOR PEDAL FULLY APPLIED VOLTAGE VALUES
ACCELERATOR PEDAL FULLY RELEASED VOLTAGE VALUES
(Refer to Diagram # 4)

Are all 3 APPS signals out of range for the pedal fully applied and released positions?

Yes : GO to DK4.

No : For DTCs P2104, P2121, P2122, P2123, P2126, P2127, P2128, P2131, P2132 or P2133 alone, GO to DK8. For any combination of ETC related DTCs, GO to DK4. For continuous memory DTCs P2121 and P2126 with P2131, GO to DK22. For a lack/loss of power, GO to DK8.

DK4 CHECK THE VREF VOLTAGE TO APP SENSOR
Key in OFF position.
APP Sensor connector disconnected.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCREF
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCRTN

Is the voltage between 4 - 6 V?

Yes : GO to DK5.

No : GO to Pinpoint Test C.

DK5 CHECK THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THE APPS1 CIRCUIT

NOTE: Use the voltage measurements from DK3.

Is APPS1 out of range?

Yes : GO to DK8.

No : GO to DK6.

DK6 CHECK THE FUNCTIONALITY OF APPS2
NOTE: Use the voltage measurements from DK3.

Is APPS2 out of range?

Yes : GO to DK8.

No : GO to DK7.

DK7 CHECK THE FUNCTIONALITY OF APPS3
NOTE: Use the voltage measurements from DK3.

Is APPS3 out of range?

Yes : GO to DK8.

No : GO to DK22.

Refer to diagram # 5 for DK8

Are all the resistances within specifications?

Yes : For DTCs P2121, P2122 or P2123 alone or in combination, GO to
DK10.
For DTCs P2126, P2127 or P2128 alone or in combination, GO to DK14.
For DTCs P2131, P2132 or P2133 alone or in combination, GO to DK18.
For DTC P2104 alone, GO to DK26.
For a lack/loss of power, the concern is elsewhere. RETURN to SYMPTOM
CHARTS for further direction.
For all others, GO to DK22.

N0 : INSTALL a new APP sensor. REFER to the appropriate ACCELERATION CONTROL article.
CLEAR the DTCs.
PRESS the accelerator pedal several times and REPEAT the self-test. If DTCs are present:
GO to DK9.

DK9 CHECK THE APP SENSOR CIRCUIT INTEGRITY

Key in OFF position.
APP Sensor connector disconnected.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Component Side = ETCREF
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Component Side = ETCRTN

Is the resistance between 700 ohms - 1,700 ohms (E-Series, Explorer, F-150, F-Super Duty, LS, Mark LT, Mountaineer), 900 ohms - 1,840 ohms (Fusion, Milan, Zephyr), 200 ohms - 470 ohms (all other vehicles with a 7-pin APP sensor), or 210 ohms - 470 ohms (all other vehicles with an 8-pin APP sensor)?

Yes : For continuous memory DTCs P2121 with P2122 or P2123, or with P2126 and P2131, GO to DK10.
For continuous memory DTCs P2126 with P2127 or P2128, or with P2121 and P2131, GO to DK14.
For continuous memory DTCs P2121 and P2122 or P2131 and P2133, GO to
DK18.

No : INSTALL a new APP sensor.
CLEAR the DTCs.
PRESS the accelerator pedal several times and REPEAT the self-test. If DTCs are present: GO to DK10.

DK10 CHECK THE APPS1 CIRCUIT FOR AN OPEN IN THE HARNESS
PCM connector disconnected.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ( - ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS1

Is the resistance less than 5 ohms?

Yes : GO to DK11.

No : REPAIR the open circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK11 CHECK THE APPS1 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO GROUND IN THE HARNESS
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1
( - ) 12 Volt Vehicle Battery = Negative terminal

Is the resistance greater than 10K ohms?

Yes : GO to DK12.

No : REPAIR the short circuit to GND. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK12 CHECK THE APPS1 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT IN THE HARNESS

Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCRTN

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCREF

Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?

Yes : GO to DK13.

No : REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK13 CHECK THE APPS1 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS

Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1
( - ) 12 Volt Vehicle Battery = Negative terminal

Is any voltage present?

Yes : REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

No : GO to DK22.

DK14 CHECK THE APPS2 CIRCUIT FOR AN OPEN IN THE HARNESS
PCM connector disconnected.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS2

Is the resistance less than 5 ohms?

Yes : GO to DK15.

No : REPAIR the open circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK15 CHECK THE APPS2 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO GROUND IN THE HARNESS

Measure the resistance between:

( + ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) 12 Volt Vehicle Battery = Negative terminal

Is the resistance greater than 10K ohms?

Yes : GO to DK16.

No : REPAIR the short circuit to GND. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK16 CHECK THE APPS2 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT IN THE HARNESS
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCRTN

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCREF

Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?

Yes : GO to DK17.

No : REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK17 CHECK THE APPS2 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS

Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) 12 Volt Vehicle Battery = Negative terminal

Is any voltage present?

Yes : REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

No : GO to DK23.

DK18 CHECK THE APPS3 CIRCUIT FOR AN OPEN IN THE HARNESS

PCM connector disconnected.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS3

Is the resistance less than 5 ohms?

Yes = GO to DK19.

No : REPAIR the open circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK19 CHECK THE APPS3 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO GROUND IN THE HARNESS

Measure the resistance between:

( + ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) 12 Volt Vehicle Battery = Negative terminal

Is the resistance greater than 10K ohms?

Yes : GO to DK20.

No : REPAIR the short circuit to GND. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK20 CHECK THE APPS3 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT IN THE HARNESS

Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCRTN

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCREF

Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?

Yes : GO to DK21.

No : REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK21 CHECK THE APPS3 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS

Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) 12 Volt Vehicle Battery = Negative terminal

Is any voltage present?

Yes : REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

N0 : GO to DK24.

DK22 CHECK THE APPS1 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TOGETHER

Key in OFF position.
PCM connector disconnected.
APP Sensor connector disconnected.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCREF

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCRTN

Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?

Yes : GO to DK25.

No : REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK23 CHECK FOR THE APPS2 CIRCUIT SHORTED TO SIGNALS IN THE SAME HARNESS

Key in OFF position.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCREF

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCRTN

Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?

Yes : GO to DK25.

No : EPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK24 CHECK FOR THE APPS3 CIRCUIT SHORTED TO SIGNALS IN THE SAME HARNESS

Key in OFF position.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCREF

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = ETCRTN

Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?

Yes : GO to DK25.

No : REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK25 CHECK THE APP SENSOR CIRCUITS FOR AN INTERMITTENT CONCERN

Wiggle, shake, and bend small sections of the wiring harness while working from the sensor to the PCM.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS1
( - ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS1

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS2
( - ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS2

( + ) APP Sensor Connector, Harness Side = APPS3
( - ) PCM Connector, Harness Side = APPS3

Are the resistances less than 5 ohms?

Yes : GO to DK26.

No : ISOLATE the concern and REPAIR as necessary. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DK26 CHECK FOR CORRECT PCM OPERATION

Disconnect all the PCM connectors.
Visually inspect for:
a) pushed out pins
b) corrosion
Connect all the PCM connectors and make sure they seat correctly.
Carry out the PCM self-test and verify the concern is still present.

Is the concern still present?

Yes : INSTALL a new PCM. REFER to FLASH ELECTRICALLY ERASABLE PROGRAMMABLE READ ONLY MEMORY (EEPROM).

N0 : The system is operating correctly at this time. The concern may have been caused by a loose or corroded connector.
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Thursday, March 3rd, 2011 AT 10:15 PM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Hi, long time no communication my good friend.I have changed the Complete Accelerator pedal(new from ford), I also bought the brain box but fix it without reprogramming but the van started and idle fine without shaking even with A/C on. But yet there is no acceleration. As you know before I have changed the Throttle Body(used but good). This codes are still present:P2104, P2112 and Po193. Thanks a lot for your patience
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Friday, June 3rd, 2011 AT 3:27 PM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Sorry please I forgot to add that I used to hear one kind of clicking sound by the throttle body each time I open the ignition to start the vehicle. Again bear in mind that the throttle body is a used one. Thanks
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Friday, June 3rd, 2011 AT 5:14 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
Refer to diagram for explanation of P0193.

As to the other 2 other coeds, check the wireharness. Seems someone has encountered such problems before and was found to be due to damaged wiring. Check the wireharness underhood, near the EGR pipe. Note if the wire is brushing against the EGR pipe and has signs of damage to the wires.
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Saturday, June 4th, 2011 AT 7:13 AM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
  • MEMBER
Thanks my man, I think this make a lot of sense, I will do that immediately but I need to know the type of wires you are talking about. Again do you think from experience that the Po193 codes has anything to do with the non-accelerating problems. Secondly, do you thing that I need to reprogramme the PCM I bought, although it has the same number and pins and it started the vehicle when fixed. With the explanation on the smooth idling of the vehicle, do you also think the Throttle position sensor by the TB is faulty again. Lastly, please comment on the clicking sound by the TB plug-in connection (i.E 2 wires to the motor side). Thanks
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Monday, June 6th, 2011 AT 4:14 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Yes, P0193 can cause poor throttle response as the fuel pressure sensor is not working correctly.

Since the computer works, it is not necessary to reprograme it but there have been instances whereby reflashing helps.

The wires mentioned are those that is in a harness that goes near the EGR pipes and it could also be the reason for P0193.

The TB would have minimal clicking noise when ignition is turned on as it tries to adjust itself to the conditions such as engine coolant temperature so it is nothing to worry about.
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Monday, June 6th, 2011 AT 8:05 PM
Tiny
DECAPTAIN2010
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Thanks for this wonderful reply.I noticed that when I removed the fuel filter to chec for blockage and it was very clean, but as I put on the ignition to check the fuel pressure, fuel refuse to flow at all but if I try to start it it will just be flowing slowly.I tried this several times and it is the same ;i thought it is normal. Or must one start this model of vehicle before fuel flows from the tank?Anyway, please comment on the above and the location of the fuel pressure sensor. Also the location of the EGR pipe.I think we are close to the solution. Finally from the workings of the engine(no hesitation and stumbling during idling)do u think the TPS is ok?Thanks a lot my man.
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Wednesday, June 8th, 2011 AT 3:40 PM

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