1970 Jeep CJ5 Ignition issues

Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
  • 1970 JEEP CJ5
  • V6
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 110,000 MILES
I have a dauntless v-6 that starting running a little rough and spitting back in carb during acceleration. Since it still has points and they were pretty cooked I went ahead and changed them. While I was doing it I also changed the plugs, wires cap and rotor. After doing this it simply will not run. I have also changed the coil and resistor trying to eliminate any possible problems. During this process I bought and attempted to install a Pertonix ignition to delete the points. The kit was defective so I sent it back. The engine turns over fine and is getting fuel. Timing is not exactly correct but close and if it will fire I can adjust from there. I set the new points to.017 per info I found on line. My dwelling meter is very old and I do not trust it so I really dont have one. I did have an issue installing the points and they seem to be at the end of the adjustment which I found to be odd. I've checked every way I know to make sure they are in correctly and I think they are. Right now I am kind of at wits end. I'm an old school mechanic and whiles its been a while since I've dealt with points I feel like they are in right.
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Sunday, December 7th, 2014 AT 2:55 PM

37 Replies

Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
I HAVE NOT DEALT MUCH WITH THE BUICK V-6

I MAY CAN HELP WITH THE POINTS

A GOOD PIC MIGHT BE NICE

MY '46 IS A 134 FLATHEAD

THE DWELL/ TACH IS A GOOD THING, AS IT IS NEEDED TO SET IDLE SPEED CORRECTLY, AND NOT ONLY USED FOR THE DWELL

SEND PIC OF YOUR PAL TOO, I LIKE TO SEE WHAT I'M WORKIN' ON!

PERTRONIX IS THE BEST THING THAT I EVER DID TO MY WILLYS IGNITION

"WILLY" RUNS SO MUCH SMOOTHER!

MORE INFO ON THAT IN THIS LINK- SEE "MY ANSWER" NEAR THE BOTTOM

http://www.2carpros.com/questions/1972-volkswagen-beetle-should-intake-manifold-very-hot-touch

WE WILL GET YOU GOIN'!

YOUR TURN

THE MEDIC
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Sunday, December 7th, 2014 AT 5:44 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
Ok I've been doing some checking and when I turn the key on the resistor gets smoking hot. The guy I got it from pulled power from the deed side of the resistor to run the fuel pump. Shouldn't matter but it's there. I have ordered the pertronix for it and will have it Wednesday. Will be removing the resistor? Coil says it needs one though.
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 1:31 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
I ORDERED THE "BLASTER" COIL TOO!

YOU CAN TRY THE RESISTOR AND YOUR COIL, IF IT AIN'T HAPPENING YOU CAN GO THE OTHER ROUTE WITH A COIL WITH A BUILT IN RESISTOR, LIKE FOR A '77 CJ-5 258 W/ A "PRESTOLITE IGNITION SYSTEM"

READ YOUR PERTRONICS LITERATURE TO MAKE SURE WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS ACCEPTABLE

WHAT'S THE REASON FOR A 'LECTRIC PUMP?

IF YOU GOTTA KEEP IT, DON'T RUN THRU THE RESISTOR TO POWER IT

THE MEDIC
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 2:51 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
MISTAKE ABOVE-

IT IS A "FLAME THROWER" COIL

THE MEDIC
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 2:52 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
I have spark out of the coil but nothing to the plugs. I'm starting to think the new points I bought are either wrong for this application or they are bad. Wednesday the new ignition comes in. Praying that does it. This motor runs too strong to give up on it.
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 3:09 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
I also moved the electric pump power to under the dash. The electric pump was on there when I bought it. The old manual pump is not there and the access has a plate over it. Don't want to stir up any more trouble right now so I'm leaving well enough alone. Lol.
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 3:12 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
CAN YOU SEND A GOOD WELL LIT CLOSE UP OF THE DIST. WITH ROTOR BUTTON REMOVED?

WE'LL HASH OUT MY DISLIKE OF 'LECTRIC PUMPS AFTER WE GET THIS THING GOING!

HOW ARE YOU TESTING FOR SPARK AT THE COIL/ PLUGS?

HAVE YOU HAD THE DISTRIBUTOR OUT OF THE ENGINE?

THE MEDIC
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 6:28 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
I will send the pic tomorrow. I have the plugs out and connect to the wires and grounded. Turn the engine over and no spark.
I did take the distributor out but it went back exactly as it came out. Very confident of that. I've done a lot of them so I know it's right.
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 8:08 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
IF YOU CAN GET BELOW THE POINTS MOUNTING PLATE, SEE IF YOUR MECHANICAL/ CENTRIFUGAL WEIGHT WILL MOVE/ SEE IF THE SPRING THAT RETRACTS THEM IS BROKEN

AS WHICH THEY ARE ALWAYS BE ADVANCED -'NUTHER WORDS, THE "ADVANCE" WILL NOT SYNC WITH ENGINE SPEED, THE SYMPTOM WOULD BE NO ADVANCE AT ALL, THE ENGINE WOULD "HOLD BACK" AS YOU ATTEMPT TO ACCELERATE, ALONG WITH POPPING AND SPITTING

IT WILL CONFUSE YOU, THE TIMING WAS PERFECT! (THEN SPRING BROKE) , NOW IT'S X DEGREES OFF, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? I'LL RETIME IT! (STILL AIN'T MECHANICALLY ADVANCING) DUH? HUH?

IF IT'S STILL RUNNING, IT CAN BE DETECTED (BEFORE GOING INTO THE DISTRIBUTOR)

USING A TIMING LIGHT,

DISCONNECT AND PLUG THE VACUUM ADVANCE HOSE ON THE DISTRIBUTOR.

FIRE IT UP.

AT IDLE, WE WILL READ WHERE THE TIMING IS SET TO WITH THE TIMING LIGHT

GRADUALLY ACCELERATE THE THROTTLE, THE MECHANICAL ADVANCE "SHOULD" START MAKING YOUR TIMING MARK TO BE ADVANCED MORE AND MORE AS RPMs INCREASE

IF THE SPRING IS BROKEN (OR WEIGHTS ARE NOT MOVING OUTWARD) DURING INCREASED RPMs, YOUR MARK WILL NOT MOVE FROM WHERE IT WAS AT IDLE

I'VE SIMULTANEOUSLY BEEN HELPIN' THIS FELLER

http://www.2carpros.com/questions/1967-pontiac-bonneville-no-spark-to-sparkplugs

I THINK HE'S NOW GETTING SOMEWHERE

MAYBE YOU HAVE A SIMILAR ISSUE?

THE MEDIC
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 8:38 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
My mechanical advance is above the plate im pretty sure. This is a delco distributor not a Perless.
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 8:43 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
As you can see the weights are on top. Springs are good.
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Monday, December 8th, 2014 AT 8:49 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
Should have said Perless distributor. I have to have some type of direct short somewhere. I'm thinking the points are grounded but I don't see how it could be but that is what started all this.
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Tuesday, December 9th, 2014 AT 7:14 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
DID YOU READ THE LINK I SENT ABOUT THE BONNEVILLE?

MAYBE YOUR ISSUE IS LIKE HIS?

THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, December 9th, 2014 AT 2:01 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
I did read it. That refers to an issue with timing and advance weights. I'm not having that issue. I am not getting any spark. I've changed the entire ignition system and still only intermitton spark. Again I am convinced something has to be grounding but I sure can't find it. The jeep ran before taking the points out so it has to be something within the distributor. I will be changing to a Per tronix 1165 on Thursday and at that point I will be taking the distributor apart. If there's an issue inside I will see it then.
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Tuesday, December 9th, 2014 AT 4:25 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
YOU READ THESE EXCERPTS IN THAT POST

I MADE A PIC SHOWING MY ISSUE, SORTA EXPLAINED USING A CONTINUITY TEST

ME

WE SAW WHY THE PREVIOUS OWNER (SOME 20 YEARS BEFORE) HAD ABANDONED IT IN A FIELD BEHIND HIS HOUSE

THE BOLT AND NUT THAT HOLDS THE TWO STRAPS OF THE POINTS (SILVER AND BRASS) ONTO THE DISTRIBUTOR MUST HAVE GOTTEN LOST, AND HE REPLACED IT WITH ANOTHER ONE

I REPLACED IT THE SAME WAY TOO!

IT WAS TOO LONG AND WAS BARELY TOUCHING THE INSIDE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR OUTER HOUSING

CONSTANT GROUND!

I GROUND THE BOLT OFF, RE-INSTALLED IT, STUCK MR. DISTRIBUTOR CAP ON

FIRED OFF ON THE FIRST REVOLUTION!

EIGHT HOURS OF THAT "KNOT IN MY STOMACH"/ FIXED IN TWO MINUTES!

THIS MAY NOT BE YOUR PROBLEM, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING IS TOUCHING GROUND SOME HOW IN THERE

ME

NO CONTINUITY IS "JUICE AIN'T MAKING THE LOOP" (WHEN POINTS ARE OPEN) (WHICH IS GOOD!)

CONSTANT CONTINUITY WHILE OPEN OR CLOSED (IS NOT GOOD!) LOOK FOR THE PROBLEM, IT MIGHT BE THAT THE "CORK LOOKING" PAPER UNDER A PART IS GONE OR NO LONGER ISOLATING THE PART FROM THE PLATE OR BODY

HIM

Thank you for telling me about the piece of paper under the points that was the problem. I cut out a gasket out of a bicycle tube and made little rubber washers for the bolts it works good now getting power to plugs thank you again

ME

RADIO SHACK MAY HAVE THE CORRECT KINDA GASKET PAPER

NEXT TIME YOU SEE A SHELLED OUT OLD RADIO OR TV, BUST INTO 'EM AND YOU MIGHT FIND THE CORRECT MATERIAL IN IT

DID YOU LOOK FOR THINGS LIKE THAT IN YOURS?

THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, December 9th, 2014 AT 4:59 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE YOU FEEL DUMB

JUST BEING REPETITIVE, WANNA DO FULL COVERAGE, BEFORE WE ELIMINATE THIS FACTOR

REMEMBER, I SPENT EIGHT HOURS, CONSTANTLY LOOKING RIGHT AT THE PROBLEM WITH MINE

ALSO WHAT IS THE VOLTAGE AT YOUR POS SIDE OF MR. COIL?

THE MEDIC
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-1
Tuesday, December 9th, 2014 AT 6:13 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
I'VE REALLY POURED OVER THIS

(AND I LIKE DOING SO)

I JUST AIN'T GETTIN' GREASY

CHECK OUT MY PIC BELOW

THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, December 9th, 2014 AT 7:45 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
Ok I've been checking some more and I have spark coming out of the coil. I can rotate the rotor by hand at the hig point of the points cam and get spark from the coil. (Coil wire out of distributor ). I put the cap back on and plug the coil wire back into the cap and nothing to the plus. New cap new rotor new wires new plugs. I've bought the entire ingnition system under the hood! From the resistor to the coil to the points wires cap rotor plugs. It's all new! As for voltage at the positive side of the coil with the key on is 12 volts not 5. Checked it at both sides of the resistor and its 12 volts. I've worked on a lot of motors but this has me stumped. It has to be something stupid at this point. Every time I've had one give me trouble it's usually something simple. I have even gone to the point of bypassing the wire from the resistor to the coil as well as the wire from the coil to the distributor. Still nothing. If the coils firing isn't it in the rotor or cap? Points are doing their job sending the spark. The rotor is what transfers it to the right plug through the cap. I've checked the cap and rotor and everything checks out. I check to make sure voltage could get through with the ohm meter.
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Wednesday, December 10th, 2014 AT 4:26 PM
Tiny
SCHULTZ2659
  • MEMBER
As for the points being isolated they do not check out. They appear grounded based on the test you show. I traced back to the resistor and with the points open it shows grounded. That doesn't make sense because that's where my voltage is coming from.
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Wednesday, December 10th, 2014 AT 4:28 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
SOMETIMES CATALOG MISTAKES, CUSTOMERS PLAYING "MUSICAL PARTS", WITH 5 OPEN BOXES, IGNORANCE, STUPIDITY, MISTAKES, AND CELL PHONES INTERFERE WITH THE SACRED COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN YOU AND THE PARTS GUY

LET'S CHECK ON A THOUGHT TO BE "GIVEN" IN THIS EQUATION

REMOVE THE DISTRIBUTOR CAP AND ROTOR BUTTON

SORTA HOLD THE BUTTON CENTERED INSIDE THE CAP

DOES THE NOSE END OF THE BUTTON LOOK LIKE IT HAS ENOUGH REACH TO GET REALLY CLOSE TO THE OUTER CONTACTS?

THERE WERE OTHER ENGINES YOUR JEEP, SWAPPED PARTS IN BOXES MIGHT ALSO ACCOUNT FOR A WRONG BUTTON, ETC

I'M STILL GRABBIN'

VOLTMETER SET TO OHMS

POINT GAP OPEN

ONE LEAD ON THE DISTRIBUTOR CASE

THE OTHER ON THE "ARM" OF THE POINTS OR ON THE ELECTRICAL STUD ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR

DO YOU HAVE CONTINUITY?

YOU SHOULD NOT!

THIS SHOULD BE ISOLATED FROM THE STUD TO THE TIP OF THE CONTACT

I'LL BE HERE TILL MAYBE 11 PM EASTERN

THE MEDIC
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Wednesday, December 10th, 2014 AT 4:58 PM

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