Engine will not start

Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
  • MEMBER
  • 1978 JEEP CJ5
  • 4.2L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 100,000 MILES
I purchased this vehicle in a non running condition in July. It was turning over but slowly. I have fuel. I replaced the fuel pump and filter just to eliminate that. I have the Motorcraft ignition module, I replaced it with one I had from my 1979 F250 and I had original tested ( it was okay). I replaced the starter, solenoid, battery and starter cables, coil, plugs and plug wires. I was not getting a strong spark and after reading one of your previous posts found that I am not getting twelve volts at the coil when in start condition. I ran a wire straight to coil from battery and it sparks much stronger, but still no start. I also have a lot of play in the distributor, I changed that today. It does crank better but is not starting.
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Saturday, September 6th, 2014 AT 7:53 PM

53 Replies

Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
  • MEMBER
I forgot to add that the CJ5 has a 4.2L engine.
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Saturday, September 6th, 2014 AT 9:18 PM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
Check pickup coil in distributor for resistance 400-800 ohms orange and purple wire. Also, if busing in distributor bad it will cause poor starting because of to large a gap in pickup coil.
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Sunday, September 7th, 2014 AT 8:19 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC II
  • MEMBER
Hey,

Keep on responding-we will get you going!

Ignition module?

Is it the one that has "blue plastic" around the wires where they exit the module? (Other colors are for different different applications).

See my picture below.

Is it possible the distributor is in wrong or your plug wires are on wrong? This is a little more involved than looking a picture it is easy to do [just a little hesitant/scary if you have not ever "dug into" something like this!].

Your turn,

The medic
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Sunday, September 7th, 2014 AT 1:46 PM
Tiny
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It is a blue grommet module. I had it tested. Plug wires and distributor are correct. I lined up TDC with timing marks, number one cylinder and distributor ( rotor pointing at number one on cap.
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Sunday, September 7th, 2014 AT 2:17 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC II
  • MEMBER
Can you do these test?

I have been meaning to re-do these pictures so that they might explain better.

Does not hurt to double check things.

http://www.2carpros.com/questions/1979-jeep-cj7-79-that-started-ran-prior-problem-now-wont-start-get-spark-out/page/2

Keep the details coming.

The MEDIC

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Sunday, September 7th, 2014 AT 3:26 PM
Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
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I have been reading your information on as many Jeep CJ posts as possible. I did the continuity check on all the ignition module/distributor wires. All checks were good. My coil does not say anything about resistor. It says "for electronic ignitions". It is brand new from AutoZone. I am planning on following your plan and a second wire to the coil, just bought resistor.
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Sunday, September 7th, 2014 AT 3:42 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC II
  • MEMBER
Your auto zone coil should be a part number c832, c832g, or a c832vc.

And yes, a new part can be bad too!

First two pictures below are how to test it.

You did install your wires in a clockwise firing order sequence on the distributor cap?

What happens (exactly) when you pour two teaspoons of gas down the carburetor and attempt a start?

Ignition "on" what value are you getting at the positive side of the coil? See third picture.

Please answer to the best of your ability!

Helps me a lot!

The medic
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Sunday, September 7th, 2014 AT 7:10 PM
Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
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Answers:
1. It is a C832 coil.
2. Wires are correct - I use a Haynes manual.
3. Tried gas - no good.
4. Voltage is 6.8 at coil.
Primary resistance - 1.5 ohms.
Secondary resistance - 8800 ohms.

Cranking voltage is listed as six volts in the manual. Is that correct?
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Sunday, September 7th, 2014 AT 8:00 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC II
  • MEMBER
When you got to "TDC" and the rotor was pointing at a tower (position for number one wire to be)(start of the sequence).

Did you start the sequence there, or did you go by the picture in the haynes manual to set this up?

Number one could start anywhere around the distributor- the engine does not care-it will still run fine!

The sequence must start there and go clockwise

To get the distributor's rotor "textbook", one must get back to TDC and drop the distributor back in as the book shows (towards number one tower in the book)

Just so happens-mine is in "textbook"-see my picture.

You are doing good! Is the distributor sitting all the way down on the block?

Do you know about the oil pump below it and how it might need "tweaking" so the distributor will drop in all the way?

I understand you are frustrated-but stay motivated!

Lots of your stuff sounds like it is in right.

We will find the glitch.

Insure your battery is fully charged!

Your coil voltage at the positive pole seems low

Your Haynes covers several engines and years, make sure you are in the right section!

I am pretty sure "twelve volts" is what we need at the starter, it would also "work" at the coil for short time periods. In order to not burn stuff up, the "resistance wire" will lower coil voltage (if it is still there, and not tampered with).

Want a partial wire diagram for the ignition system?

Bedtime/ work/see you afterwords!

THE MEDIC
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+1
Sunday, September 7th, 2014 AT 8:56 PM
Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
  • MEMBER
I do not have a wire going to the "I" terminal on solenoid. After looking over your diagrams I do not understand the resistance wire location. It looks like it goes to the positive on the coil via a splice and then continues on to the red wire coming out of ignition module. Is that correct? If so then I need to run one.
I am going to double check my distributor setup also.
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Monday, September 8th, 2014 AT 8:40 AM
Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
  • MEMBER
I ran into another problem. The gears on the oil pump that engage the distributor are broken off. I just pulled oil pan and I am headed into town for parts. I am done working on this for a couple days. Got go to work.
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Monday, September 8th, 2014 AT 4:01 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC II
  • MEMBER
Let's talk this over a bit.
If this is going to be a keeper

Get a "high volume oil pump" it is well worth it on older engine- here's a link -"Melling" may be the only one to offer it.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Melling-Oil-Pump/1978-Jeep-CJ5/_/N-imt8aZ8zn8y?itemIdentifier=429886_25402_4698_

We also need to figure out what shelled them off, before you do it again!

Hope I caught you in time.

Ignition stuff will be in my next response.

THE MEDIC
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Monday, September 8th, 2014 AT 4:50 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC II
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Okay,

I have looked for a 1978 wire diagram with Motorcraft ignition.
All of them seem to show the ole crappy "Prestolite system" (some 1978's and 1977 rearward).
The first one showing "Motorcraft" is a 1979 (for me, a 1979 diagram usually gets me by for nearby years).
I did find this diagram, which may aid you.
Can you follow your pos coil wire to it's end?
Can you get me a reading at positive coil, key on, fresh battery?
In the first diagram I sent, the "writing" at the "t" intersection of the module and resistance wire- is actually the red wire continuing to the module
If nothing else we can run a new wire from the ignition wire at the firewall and install a ballast resistor to cut the voltage down
This is exactly what I did when I "upgraded" my 1977 from Prestolite to Motorcraft. I have some pictures!
Below is the 1980 ignition diagram and more.

THE MEDIC
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Monday, September 8th, 2014 AT 5:06 PM
Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
  • MEMBER
I will get a high volume oil pump. Thanks! I have 7.1 volts at positive on coil with key on. The 1980 schematic is much easier to read. You do not need a magnifying glass! Lol
I am not sure if age of Jeep is correct. It has a rebuilt title, VIN has an 83 in it. Intake has 1978 cast in it. It has Motorcraft ignition. I went through a lot of under hood wiring today. It is much simpler now. I have 12.4 volts coming out of four prong module at firewall ( not sure if that helps).
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Monday, September 8th, 2014 AT 7:09 PM
Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
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Added picture.
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Monday, September 8th, 2014 AT 7:16 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC II
  • MEMBER
Looks really nice
What did it cost you?
Needs to be on the road!
Look in your book under identification
"83" means cj-5
"85" means cj-7
Vin begins "j" second digit is year- mine is "7" - meaning 1977.
My 1979 of years ago was "j9".
The other digits include, place of mfg, tranny, engine, etc, the last digits are a sequential number as the rolled off the line.
Our type of cj-5 was made between 1976 and 1983 (cj-5s began in 1955).
On my 1977 with prestolite there was no "resistance wire" it used a coil that had an internal resistor.
The wire to the coil went the same route as a "resistor wire" and tied in at the same place (basically).
In order to use "1979" (and later) motorcraft ignition on my 1977, I had to do some minor wire changes.
I got the harness from the module to the coil off of a Ford in the salvage yard
In order to keep things 1979 "correct", I used a 1979 coil which required external resistance (the need for the ballast resistor).
So I simply installed the ballast resistor onto the "regular wire" that lead to the coil, as it was already in place for the prestolite crapsome say I should have kept the prestolite coil and no ballast resistor.
I did it "my way" so that when I need anything for the ignition, I simply say "1979 cj-5" at the parts store!
I do now have the extra part (the ballast resistor) should it "break" (lose voltage to the coil), I can simply and temporarily hook the wires together (full twelve volts) to get me in.
Last three pictures are on my 1946 Willys
Are "we" jeeping' well or what?
Past bedtime,

The MEDIC
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Monday, September 8th, 2014 AT 8:59 PM
Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
  • MEMBER
It is 78 based on your information. Thanks! Paid $2,000.00 as it sits.
I am working today and tomorrow. So next time to work on it is Thursday.
So should I run the extra wire with ballast resistor?
Have a good day!
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Tuesday, September 9th, 2014 AT 3:32 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC II
  • MEMBER
Why not "temporary" it to the coil and get a voltmeter reading at the coil (run it in the harness' later)
Then trace out the other wire to insure it is not shorting somewhere (then you can "cut the cord").
You might try to hook the new one where the old started out, just so that the ignition switch will still control it.
We still are not out of the woods. We may have a bad ignition switch or etc.
Try moving the distributor a little, one way or the other to get it to bust off. Lining up with a tower only gets number one "close"
Once up and running, timing and also tweaking the carburetor will make things better and an easy crank-up!
Keep me posted, the most fun I have had since the last guy kept responding again and again!

The MEDIC
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Tuesday, September 9th, 2014 AT 12:53 PM
Tiny
GPLOUCHARD
  • MEMBER
I could not locate a high volume oil pump in Evansville, had to order online and it should be here by next Wednesday. So I am down for a few days. Any tips on getting the oil pan to seal. It has a broken bolt that I am work on. Someone put wrong bolt!
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Thursday, September 11th, 2014 AT 7:56 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC II
  • MEMBER
Ok buddy,
I do not mean to keep slinging stuff at you! we are already in the oil pan. what about a new rear main seal? we will need the part (see the link), a 1/2 drive ratchet (maybe a breaker bar), a 1/2 drive 3/4" socket, a four to six inch extension, a dab of RVTsilicone, a dab of Vaseline, an 1/8 inch punch (or a small six inch piece of brazing rod), a small hammer , needle nose pliers. A can of spray brake cleaner (we can use the rest of it doing the oil pan!) Most importantly, a torque wrench.
I can talk you through it, if need be!

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/felpro-rear-main-seal-set-bs-40612/5991587-P?searchTerm=rear+main+seal+set&zoneAssigned=1

This may not help with this purchase, but coupled with other stuff you need, it might! If you have not already seen it (depending on your location, it may not help at all, but! The technique might!) A124 still worked for me two days ago.

http://www.2carpros.com/questions/2001-dodge-neon-milage-just-want-put-fliuds-their-locations

The pan? Which bolt is broke (big or little, front, rear, driver/ passenger side) can you get out the piece with your fingers?
I have a couple of possible ways that may minimize damage, depending on situation. can you send a good picture?

I will give you some better (real good) pan gasket instruction when we make the bolt situation better you will feel really proud that you tackled your fixes, without a shop being involved!

In fact, with every Jeep that shows up at my place, i might demonstrate stuff, use my tools, but i talk the owner through doing his own repair (how else how is he going to learn when i am not there?). I never ask for money, but most do donate something to me, money or something useful!

I am always here sometime every day in good ole s.c.!

The MEDIC
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Thursday, September 11th, 2014 AT 4:04 PM

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