Car will not start

Tiny
MATHEWSBENZ
  • MEMBER
  • 1997 MERCEDES BENZ C280
  • 2.6L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 71,000 MILES
Okay, I am a huge Mercedes fan and loyal as can be to the brand. I have had ten Mercedes models in my time. It is number ten that is giving me such heartache.

I bought this car AMG Edition from a couple months ago. The key was broken in the ignition. She handed me a tumbler and key from O'Reillys that she intended to install. I drilled out the old key and installed the new one which also broke.

I went and installed a push button and toggle switch to try and bypass the immobilizer but that did not work. It just cranked and cranked. I installed a crank position sensor and fuel filter and still no turn over. So I ended up getting a steering lock ignition switch from a 1976 Mercedes at the local salvage yard that still had the original keys. It looks and works great except, still no turn over.

I then noticed the key fob had no power. My brother (master mechanic but is busy with his life so I do not ask him much ) looked at it and saw a burn mark. He took the key home and four days later, when I got it back, when I pushed the button, red light came on (only on the key fob though).

How can I ever get this car to drive again? I think no spark, but could there be something else wrong causing this. Please help!
Monday, April 9th, 2018 AT 11:31 PM

7 Replies

Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,001 POSTS
Well first you are going to need to get the correct ignition switch and keys so the alarm system can detect the key. Next you will need a dealer to program in the new keys so the system will work. The fobs will also need to be replaced and programmed into the system. At the moment the car thinks it has been stolen and has shut off the fuel and ignition. Until it sees the correct security information from the key and fob it will stay off.
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Tuesday, April 10th, 2018 AT 11:49 PM
Tiny
MATHEWSBENZ
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  • 4 POSTS
So there is no way whatsoever to bypass it instead of paying astronomical fees at the dealer? You're saying that the absolute only way to get it to run is to pay the $1000 at the dealer? That's your advice? Send it to the dealer? Why don't we tell every one who has a problem that. That way there will be no mechanic shops or independent contractors and only dealer certified work. Right? I could have told myself that. "Take it to the dealer ". Where are those helpful people who want other to succeed without the dealer? That's who I wanna talk to
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Friday, April 13th, 2018 AT 3:24 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,001 POSTS
Without the factory scan tool, access to the factory programming information and the dealership codes it isn't possible to make it work. Those are the simple facts. There is no way to bypass the system, it reads the information from the key, if that information doesn't match the information programmed into the ECU, BCM, and the instrument panels processor it won't run. Period.
You may not like it but that is the way Mercedes designed the system.
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Friday, April 13th, 2018 AT 4:03 PM
Tiny
MATHEWSBENZ
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  • 4 POSTS
I understand your position with taking it to the dealer but deep down inside you have to know that pricing is way too high. Whether it be at a Chevy, Ford, BMW or Mercedes dealership unless your car is under warranty. They have to pay for those fancy buildings and electricity somehow and that is passed on to us. You also know not everyone is wealthy to just walk in and hand over their money because most everyone has a family or other bills to pay. Now if your thinking is "if you can't afford it, you shouldn't have one", then shame on you because I as well as others I'm sure believe that everyone should be able to share in the finer things in life whether your salary is $100 a year or $1 million a year. There is a way for us to have things and be just as "important" as the rich people and I for one will keep trying. My whole life one thing that has been said about me is "when I say I'm going to do something, I actually do it" and my thinking and saying about this is. Everyone can and should drive a Mercedes. Not because some think it's a status symbol or socially acceptable but because they do, hands down, make the best automobile in the world. My life has been saved twice because I was driving a Mercedes at the time. I've owned 10 and I'll continue to own more and I'll spend every single day and night learning about and letting everyone I come in contact with know that Mercedes is the best to buy and its in everyone's budget to own one.

So, thank younger your advice but I'll keep trying.
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Sunday, April 15th, 2018 AT 8:28 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,001 POSTS
No you don't understand. That vehicle has systems on it that require the specific scan tools and programming that ONLY the Mercedes dealers have access to. Unlike many other makes Mercedes doesn't allow access to their data by non authorized shops. So Bobs shop on the corner can't get the programming info to work on them.
Same thing is true with other makes as well, Rolls Royce, Bugatti, Ferrari, BMW, Skoda and others don't allow access. You might get regular service info like how to change the fluids but most of it isn't available to anyone who isn't a dealer.
Are most dealers overpriced? - That depends on how you look at it, add up the cost to buy the dealership from the company, cost of the building, taxes, astronomical insurance rates, all of the tools and equipment they are required to buy and the normal business overhead on top of that. Then you add up the labor costs for the technicians and the insurance and it is quite a price tag. On average a shop pays the techs under $25 an hour for the top techs, The rest pays the bills.

They are still my last resort as a service/repair shop unless it is for something that cannot be done anywhere else.

You have the same issue with Mercedes as farmers do with John Deere. Both make their equipment so that you need their special software and tools to be able to work on the electronics. The factory specific scan tool for that car runs $18,000.00 plus about $1,000.00 per year for updates. Want programming access as well, add $400.00 a month. This is something that ALL of the companies are trying to do, they are using the DMCA to say that the software is proprietary and that they cannot let other people into it because then the software could be altered to make emissions or safety systems fail and the company would be held liable.

All of the companies now integrate the security systems, keys or fobs. Programming them requires access to the factory data, without it you can easily brick the computer modules and turn a nice car into a car that goes to the salvage yard because it is so expensive to repair or worse you cannot get the parts. Many of the modules used are a one time unit, you program them for one vehicle and that's it, they cannot be programmed again. Mercedes isn't alone in that.
As a different example take a look online for Chrysler TIPM issues. That is the smart fuse box, it controls just about every electrical item on the vehicle. Each has to be programmed to match the VIN and options the vehicle has. They are failing at a rate faster than the company can get new ones made! Currently they are on a 3 month back-order. These are something that was designed and implemented by Mercedes when they owned the company.

Personally I consider every vehicle out there as a pile of bolts and parts that will need repair sooner or later. The problem these days is getting the parts and info to do that.

You think I'm being an ass for sending you to a dealer. The facts are that they are the only ones who have the access these days to actually do the repair you need.

The only way around that system would be to gut out the electronics that operate the engine, transmission, instrument panel and entertainment as each has a part in the security system. That is intended to make it harder to steal or sell parts if the car is stolen. It also makes them much harder to repair without all the access needed.
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Sunday, April 15th, 2018 AT 3:46 PM
Tiny
MATHEWSBENZ
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  • 4 POSTS
Yes I understand exactly what you are saying. I know that they all have modules and processors and other parts that "handshake" the main computer but it's built by man so there has to be a loophole. And I'm sure that just as a firewall is put up, it can come down. My brother had a 10,000$ scanner until one night his car was broken into and the thief made off with only said scanner. That was a month after I got this car. Now I only paid $500 for the car complete. I am not spending $500 more for a key. It just might have to go to the junk or sit here rotting til I'm done with it.

My car is by far a new model and Ill replace everything myself in order for it to go once more. But that being said, I might have to buy me another one to drive around during the process. There are a couple more options that I have to try first.
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Sunday, April 15th, 2018 AT 5:59 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,001 POSTS
There is NO loophole. That is why they are a pain to work on when they break. On the older cars there were resistors you could add or you could fake the signal from the transponders. Those methods just don't work because now it isn't a single point system. The key/fob is not queried only at initial start like the old systems. It is now queried repeatedly and using multiple signals to determine if it is valid to the vehicle.
That is why thieves don't even bother to break in anymore unless it's to steal items left out in the open. They will instead just tow the cars they want and strip off the parts.
Sorry but that is the truth with todays vehicles.

Heck even the Journey I have out front takes a rolling code transponder style FOBIK and has two spots for an actual key, one emergency lock in the drivers door and the glove box. No key needed for any of the rest of it. When the wife bought it I ordered two new FOBIKs and programmed them myself. That was because my scan tools can do that. I have 6 different ones in the shop these days, from a cheap code puller that I grab to just see what a code is quick, to a couple OTC units, A couple Snap-On units, a newer Autel and a Launch that I'm testing out. I also know what it's like to lose tools, a crook broke into my shop a few years ago and grabbed tools and 2 scan tools plus trashed the place.

However it's your vehicle, Get all the info you can and see what happens.
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Sunday, April 15th, 2018 AT 7:54 PM

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