Ignition coil primary male spade + terminal voltage?

Tiny
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The cam sensor should be an on/off signal, same as the crank sensor since they are both hall effect sensors. With each of these sensors, when the trigger wheel of each sensor has a window on it, the sensor will read low, so 0volts, (let's say for the cam sensor in this example), the trigger wheel will have sections where there is a window of space and a section where the trigger wheel will have a teeth of metal that approaches the sensor. When a metal tooth section of the trigger wheel (or reluctor) passes by the a hall effect sensor, the sensor goes high (5volts) so even by turning the engine by hand like you have been, you should come to sections where the sensor is going to read 5volts then 0volts as you have been seeing in other tests. Thats how hall effect sensors work, other 2 wire sensors generate their own AC type sinewave which can be a lower voltage at lower rpms, but then at higher rpms, the AC voltage can rise, but you are dealing with just 2 hall effect sensors for the crank and 1 for the cam sensor, Now the code setting criteria does give two conditions for this code to set.
The 18x pulses to Cam signals received by the PCM equal 36:1 ratio.
The 18x pulses to 3x pulses received by the PCM does not equal 6:1 ratio. And it states that the engine should continue to start and run using the 18x and camshaft signal PCM inputs only.
I wouldn't bother checking for any AC voltage signals, because there shouldn't be any involved here and it's just going to confuse the matter even more.
I know this system is confusing because the cam and crank signals are not directly fed to the PCM, they come through the ICM first. The Low Reference wire is stated as "providing a Ground circuit for the digital RPM counter inside the PCM. But the wire is connected to the engine ground only through the ICM. This assures there is no ground drop between the PCM and ICM". Those are the exact words from service info.
The scratch test shows the ICM can generate a 3x signal, but the question is, is that signal good? If you did see a cam signal in the past when the engine was running on your scan tool and now you do not, and your voltage test is showing the cam sensor is not dropping to ground, that is a concern.
Given that the engine should still be able to run with the 18x and cam signal alone during a fault, I would check the cam signal at the ICM on pin J Brown/White wire is the Cam signal wire coming into the ICM, if that is reading okay, and it's not okay coming out of the ICM, then there might be a grounding issue with the ICM, I would load test the grounds in that case, using a higher amperage bulb with the ICM and PCM disconnected so you are just load testing the Ground wire from the ICM in reference to battery ground. That might be why the cam sensor is not pulling fully to ground.
Theres just so much information here on many different signals, it's easy to get lost, but really this is where scope use would come in. You could have checked every signal to make sure it's a good square wave and pulling fully to ground and 5 volts. With a 4-channel scope you could look at 4 signals at once. It would make a huge difference when dealing with so many signals. But I'll find G111 for you. It's probably going to be an engine block ground, but I want to be sure.
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Wednesday, April 2nd, 2025 AT 2:38 PM
Tiny
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So the G111 ground is just below the ICM itself, I would load test it from the ICM connector to Batt Negative with a larger test lamp, if the cam signal is different at the ICM than at the PCM. Even if the connectors at the ICM and PCM look clean and okay, there can still be spread pins from being connected and disconnected so many times. Find a pin that is roughly a bit small than the ones in the ICM connector pins and do a drag test on the harness side of the ICM connector to determine if pins are spread at all.
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Wednesday, April 2nd, 2025 AT 2:53 PM
Tiny
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We need to know if the cam signal going into the ICM is the same coming out going to the PCM.
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Wednesday, April 2nd, 2025 AT 3:20 PM
Tiny
BRUCEDUNCAN
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Today is April 4, 2025.
Your site just erased an hour of my typing when I went back to page 1.
The cam signal at the ICM input brown/white stripe terminal j was dc volts 0 volts off 6.5 volts on, hand cranking. Cranking with the starter motor was 3.3 volts off 6.5 volts on.
I saw on youtube. Com Scanner Danner said a multimeter is too slow to read off voltages.
I know you told me I need a scope.
At the PCM on the cam signal wire black wire I got 2.5 to 3 volts off, 5 volts on with the starter motor and hand cranking I got 0 volts off 5 volts on. The PCM harness looks brand new no ovolled, bent or damaged female pins. The PCM male pins looked good.
You said the scratch test proves the ICM is generating an rpm signal. How can this be true the ICM harness was disconnected for the test. On my scan tool I am reading RPMs on the 3x wire when cranking ICM harness connected. On my scan tool the 18x and 3x RPMs are reading the same cranking RPM about 157 rpm. This would seem to me to prove the ICM is generating a rpm signal.
The 3x lo ground wire red/black stripe had.1 ohms resistance from the ICM through the PCM and back to battery, so my ground is good.
I put battery voltage from my multimeter to cam sensor ground terminal m Black/white stripe and got 13 vols. I did the same test with a test light and it was bright.
Cam ground terminal m had.1 ohms resistance back to the battery so my cam sensor ground is good.
Cam ground black/white stripe terminal m to g111 under ICM was 1 ohm.
I put battery voltage to g111 and got 13 volts. G111 to battery was 1 ohm resistance.
G111 is a black/white stripe wire. I don't know what this ground grounds. I was told the ICM ground is by the starter on the block from ICM harness terminal k which grounds the cam and crank sensors through the ICM. I don't know if it matters. My ICM ground is good. G111 is good. I await your reply. Bruce
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Friday, April 4th, 2025 AT 1:53 PM
Tiny
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The cam signal will not read a 0-volts to 5volts while cranking with the starter motor, that's why I said a multimeter will only read an average voltage signal while cranking. But you have been turning the motor over by hand on most tests. The G111 is the ICM ground, the Low Reference is the PCM ground through the ICM, it's there to make sure there is a good ground between the two.
Im not sure what you mean by putting battery voltage to G111? The scratch test from the flow chart shows that the 3x wire from the ICM is intact, and the PCM shows a response from the test. Service info doesn't show the 3x and 18x should be the same rpm, they are different signals used at above 1200 rpm and below 1200 rpm.
If you read the service info I have posted multiple times, it states,
"IC timing signal- The ICM controls spark timing while the engine is cranking, this is called bypass mode. Once the PCM receives the 3x reference signals from the ICM, the PCM applies 5volts to the IC timing signal circuit allowing the ICM to switch spark advance to PCM control."
This is not happening, so the PCM is not receiving a "correct" 3x signal and therefore applying the 5volts on the IC timing Signal wire.
The ICM is not controlling the coils while cranking. With this much testing, why are you not trying another control module by this point?
It states while in Bypass Mode (ICM timing control mode during cranking) the ICM grounds these signals. When in the IC Mode, the signals are sent to the ICM to control spark timing.
The PCM is not even getting into a timing mode, because you're not getting any further than cranking the engine. When it gets started the PCM will start controlling timing through the ICM.
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Friday, April 4th, 2025 AT 8:45 PM
Tiny
BRUCEDUNCAN
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Today is April 5, 2025.
I put battery voltage to G111 using my multimeter, one lead to battery + post the other lead to G11. My multimeter showed 12.8 volts. A good ground. I put one end of a test light to battery + and the other end to G111 I got a bright light. Good ground. I also cleaned G111 wire terminal with sandpaper and electrical contact cleaner.
The PCM is getting a cam signal off o volts on 5 volts, hand cranking. Starter motor cranking off 2.5 volts on 5 volts. Why does my scan tool show no CMP signal when cranking with the starter motor? I am entertaining the idea of putting in a new ICM but I don't understand why my scan tool shows no CMP signal. PCM and ich and cam grounds are good with no shorts on signal or ground wires.
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Saturday, April 5th, 2025 AT 5:01 PM
Tiny
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I'm not sure why you are not seeing the cam signal on your scan tool, I would try another scan tool to see if it's the same. This is why we end up with multiple scan tools as well,
I will use others to look at generic Global OBD2 live data, since under the manufacturers side of the scan tool, sometimes there will be a substituted value in place if a sensor is not working correctly, but this is an older vehicle also, and I've never used this scan tool, is it the FX5000 as below? This was the newer picture I could find of it, but if you have this screen, instead of going into Diagnose, I would try the OBD2 selection, that won't have as many options and live data PIDs(Parameter IDs, these are sensor and actuator IDs) as the manufacturer side (such as selecting Chevrolet/GM, etc.).

You may see things differently, and it's possible this might even be a bad engine computer, but without more advanced testing equipment at this point, we can't say every signal looks good. Especially since you are dealing with two crank sensor signals, which shouldn't be the same, if you look where the crank sensor signal is generated from, the crank trigger wheel has 18 teeth on one ring and 3 teeth with different spacing on another ring, hence the 18 pulses and 3 pulses for each signal. Thats how the PCM calculates which cylinder is at TDC and when to fire a coil, But again these signals are coming through the ICM, Im not sure if that scan tool is interpreting the signals correctly if the 18x and 3x are reading the same rpm, along with no cam signal, or if that is part of an ICM fault. I put these crank sensors operations below.

When it comes to load testing the powers and grounds, not with just a regular test light, but with a high amperage test light, such as a turn signal bulb, or headlamp. Those will pull anywhere from 0.5amps to 4-5amps depending on the bulb. I have a selection of different test lamps for load testing wires to make sure they can carry current. But I test each bulb first to see how much current they carry, and don't load test wires through a module, such as load testing a low reference wire from the ICM through the PCM to battery negative. Only load testing wires from B+ or Grounds, this is where correct wiring diagrams come in as well.
Some coils can pull a lot of amps, even up to 10amps, and this control module has to control 3 of them firing on a waste spark system.
You could try a used ICM first and see if you can get it to at least get some spark. It would be cheaper as well.
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Sunday, April 6th, 2025 AT 9:50 AM
Tiny
BRUCEDUNCAN
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Today is April 19, 2025
The fx 5000 scan tool in the picture is the one I have. I don't have access to another scan tool right now. I went into the obdII screen and hit auto select. It said my mil light is off. I am looking at my screen and its on. A yellow light with a picture of an engine block with check written underneath it. This check engine light I believe is also known as the mil light.
It said no trouble codes stored but on the diagnosis side of the tool I have a trouble code stored for a fuel pump relay I unplugged for my cranking tests so my cylinders won't get fuel.
I don't have lights to do load testing so I did some voltage drops. PCM ground to battery - post was.2 volts cranking with the starter. Black/white stripe wire pin 60 at PCM. I was hoping it would be bad to explain why I have no cam signal on my scan tool.
My cam and crank sensor share the same ground wire it was.2 to.3 volts drop from the ICM harness to battery - post. Black/white stripe terminal m at ICM. The cam and crank sensor share the same power wire. I didn't voltage drop this wire I measured voltage supply and had 10 volts while cranking just like the Haynes manual says. Terminal n at ICM harness white/black stripe wire.
The 3x lo ground wire which goes from the ICM through the PCM back to battery - post was.3 volts drop while cranking. Red/black stripe wire terminal L at ICM harness.
The ICM ground which you said goes to G111 and back to battery - post was.3 volts drop while cranking. Terminal K at ICM harness black/white stripe wire. Ignition module feed power wire was 0 volts drop from ICM harness to battery + post. Pink wire, terminal p at ICM harness. I also tested voltage supply while cranking and the pink wire has over 12 volts while cranking.
I am at a loss why I have no cam signal on my scanner. The PCM male and female pins look mint. No corrosion, no ovalling, no visible damage. Autocodes. Com said to put a pick in the female terminal and see if its tight. I think I might hook up my multimeter to the PCM cam signal wire and hook up my scan tool and see if I get a signal when cranking on the multimeter and scan tool at the same time and see if my multimeter signal cuts out. You mentioned something about a drag test for poor or intermittent connections, is there an easy step by step way to do this?
I discovered a new problem today my ignition bypass wire only has.5 volts dc while cranking with the starter. Several weeks ago, I had 5.5 volts on this wire while cranking autocodes. Com said I should have 5 volts on this circuit while cranking. Terminal b tan/black stripe wire at ICM harness. My security system light won't go out autocodes said it might be the security system killing the ignition bypass so it won't start. Back when my car ran I never got a security system light. I am not 100 % sure but pretty sure this light issue started after I unplugged the PCM for testing. Autocodes said no cam signal might kill the ignition bypass circuit. Autocodes said to try a security system relearn procedure. Key on for 10 minutes off for 5 seconds. Do this 3 times. Do you have the same relearn procedure? I will give it a try thanks Al Bruce.
My starter motor works so it's not killing the starter. I have no trouble codes in my body module.
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Saturday, April 19th, 2025 AT 1:37 PM
Tiny
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Okay, so the only security system relearn I see is if the PCM or BCM has been replaced, I do see two relearn procedures but the 10min one requires the Tech2 factory scan tool and Techline with the current service programming system software.
The 2nd method which does not require any scan tools, is a 30min procedure, which I will post the service procedure here for you , but its basically three 10 min key On times, so totaling 30min altogether. I dont see why you would have to relearn the security system without replacing any components. but the security light should not stay on like that, so thats where we are at. And yes the check engine light and MIL are the same indicator.
You can try it for just 10 min and see if that turns off your light, if not do the 3 times method.

As for bypass mode, when cranking the ICM controls spark timing, this is bypass mode, In bypass mode the ICM grounds those wires, Once the PCM receives a 3x signal, it will apply 5volts to the IC timing signal wire which causes the ICM to switch over to the PCM controlling spark timing, so a few weeks ago when you had 5volts on that wire the PCM should have been sending out timing control signals to the ICM, if this was still during the no spark period, then even with the PCM controlling timing you still had no ICM spark output. So that shows that there was a 3x signal.
Either way, with the security light on, you will need to do the relearn. That might have happened if the key was turned on with the PCM unplugged. But follow each step closely, you will need to turn the key to Off, once completed, before trying to crank the engine.

Most security systems will disable fuel injection to prevent the engine from starting. I still do not know why your scan tool is not reading a cam signal,
Make sure the battery is fully charged before doing the relearn, you dont want to get half way through a 30 minute period and have low battery voltage, it should be above 12volts, at least 12.4v. I have run into many situations where my customers state its not a battery issue, theres nothing wrong with my battery its only 4 years old. I go through that over and over. But to maintain proper memory voltage cannot be low.

Once you get through the security relearn, if you want to check the cam signal, dont unplug the PCM, back probe the connector and take a reading that way, you wont get a proper reading with PCM connectors unplugged,

The pin drag test is simply using a pin, such as the connector pin inside the PCM, that same size, to put into the PCM harness side connector to make sure the female pins are not spread apart, you should be able to put a pin in each connector wire pin and it should have a slight drag when pulling it out, it should not be loose or fall out by itself. It sounds confusing but its really not, its just the term of pin tension that sounds very technical.
Heres a quick video on a pin drag test, very simple. If youre going to do any pin tension checks do them before you do the relearn so you dont end up in the same situation and having to redo it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Gm0TgzeCo
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Saturday, April 19th, 2025 AT 3:38 PM
Tiny
BRUCEDUNCAN
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Today is April 24, 2025.

A while back I turned the key on with the pcm unplugged. The security system relearn worked. My security light is out. On my scan tool the body module says my security light is on and when I crank the engine it says my light is off and when I stop cranking it says my light is on but the light is out. No trouble codes in the body module.
My ignition bypass circuit tan/black stripe wire has 0 volts supply while cranking. I switched to millivolts while cranking and it registered 7 millivolts. I measured at the pcm and icm.
Autocodes. Com said to make sure the pcm is geting power, do you know what connector at the pcm harness supplies power to the pcm, blue or clear connector pin # and fuse box. It might be a pink power (ignition)wire. Fuse number 12. A 10 amp fuse the haynes manual is vague on details.
Autocodes said a crankshaft corollation problem may or may not cause a false cam sensor reading and no cam sensor reading could cause no power on the ignition bypass circuit. Trouble code p/1374 was set before it died several months ago crankshaft high to low correlation. But I still had 5 volts on the bypass circuit for several months after the car died.
Can you give me some things to check regarding no ignition bypass voltage. Do you think I need a pcm or possibly a passlock security system diagnosis. I am not sure.
Today the 3x rpm on the scan tool took about 3 to 4 seconds to show rpm while cranking it was about 30 rpm less than the 18x rpm. The 18x rpm showed up immediately and after several seconds of cranking the 3x and 18x rpms were just about the same about 180 rpm.
I have a new problem a trouble code set today p/1189 oil pressure switch circuit malfunction. I can't win with this car it keeps getting worse and worse. I am thinking about putting it up for sale on craigslist and putting in a new ignition module to see if it helps anything. I don't have a scope but I had and on off signal on the sensors hand cranking with a multimeter. Thanks Al, Bruce
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Thursday, April 24th, 2025 AT 5:18 PM
Tiny
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The bypass circuit is going to read 0-volts during cranking because remember the ICM controls spark timing during cranking, then once the PCM sees a 3x signal, the PCM will put out 5volts on the bypass circuit and start controlling spark timing, the 3x is going to be different than the 18x, Think about the crankshaft trigger wheel, it has two signals on it, one has 3 different spaced teeth (3x) and 18 teeth (18x), the 3x is to identify which cylinder is a top dead center and the 18x is to sync timing, So the 3x signal would be slower than the 18x signal. The oil pressure switch might just be stuck closed. The switch just grounds when there is low oil pressure and opens when pressure increases. If you're going to go so far as to sell the vehicle, why not try an ICM, with all this testing and going through so much service information, the original P1374 could have set because the ICM was on its way out, since the crank signals come through the ICM along with the cam signals. Just try an ICM, don't go further down the rabbit hole. Try an ICM.
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Thursday, April 24th, 2025 AT 6:55 PM
Tiny
BRUCEDUNCAN
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Today is April 28, 2025
You said o volts while cranking on the bypass circuit tan/black stripe wire terminal b at ICM. I have had 5.5 to 6 volts while cranking on this circuit since the car quit running 4 months ago. All of a sudden, I have 0 volts on this circuit while cranking. Why do you think I had voltage for the past 4 months on my bypass circuit? Tan/black stripe wire.
I am a little confused about ignition bypass voltages while running verses cranking and what they do and control and when they switch to the ignition control circuit white wire terminal a at ICM harness above 1,200 RPMs.
I am buying an ignition module today on partsgeek. Com Bruce
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Monday, April 28th, 2025 AT 9:12 AM
Tiny
BRUCEDUNCAN
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I ordered an ICM 260 dollars. AC Delco. I checked my ignition coils for internal shorts. I have no shorts so I won't stress or damage the new ICM. Bruce
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Monday, April 28th, 2025 AT 11:32 AM
Tiny
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I'm just telling you what service info says, a 2003 Monte Carlo is a pretty old car when it comes to automotive technology, but Ford used to have kind of the same thing where the ICM would control spark timing with the SPOUT(spark output) connector unplugged, that's how you would set ignition timing by moving the distributor. Once the Spout connector was plugged back in the PCM would take over ignition timing. So, this is GM/Chevy's version of the ICM controlling timing during cranking. With 0volts on the bypass circuit, which means the ICM is pulling it to ground and should be controlling timing. When you get a 5volts from the PCM it should be controlling timing on the ICM timing control circuit. The PCM putting 5volts out on that IC timing signal circuit just takes the ICM out of bypass mode and the PCM can start advancing timing as rpm increases under normal operation.
Of course, manufacturers have to make things as confusing as possible with just about everything. Trying to keep up with network technology these days is exhausting. Especially when we have to deal with every make and model from just about every year. Having to go through and see how a system works before being able to diagnose it if it's something that we haven't come across before. Hence the need for more advanced tooling as well. I do hope your new ICM takes care of your issue. Make sure to go through and check all your fuses if you haven't done so yet as well. I'm sure you have by now.
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Monday, April 28th, 2025 AT 12:32 PM
Tiny
BRUCEDUNCAN
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Today is April 3, 2025.
I put the new ICM in the car it still doesn't start.
I still have no cam sensor signal on my scan tool when cranking.
I put a paper clip in the cam pin at the pcm and surrounding pins and they all felt about the same drag. The pins are securely retained in the harness.
All my fuses have power on both sides of the fuse. Any ideas? Bruce
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Saturday, May 3rd, 2025 AT 10:24 AM
Tiny
AL514
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I assume you are not getting any codes set either correct? It takes 2 ignition cycles for the original P1374. You were getting a cam signal at the PCM with the multimeter check though? You still have no spark with a new ICM?
The spark plugs are not coming out wet and smelling like fuel?

*You can check to see if there is any fuel injector control, with a test light hooked to B+, the Injectors all have a pink wire which is the power feed, and the other wire is the control wire which should have a dim pulse on it with a test light when cranking. I'm assuming that will be missing as well. See if there's any pulse on the injector control wires. You'll have to watch is closely as the pulse is dim on injector control wires, but you should be able to see it, the test light should not remain just bright.
The ECM uses the crank and cam signals to calculate injector pulse and timing.

You also mentioned having 5volts on the bypass circuit (tan/black wire) while running, why were you checking the bypass circuit at that point if it was running?
With this system, if there is a good crank signal, the ICM should be controlling spark timing when cranking. So first see if you have injector pulse or spark right now.
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Saturday, May 3rd, 2025 AT 4:56 PM
Tiny
AL514
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Do me a favor and just verify you're not losing the 5volt reference when cranking, either at the Map sensor, or some other 3 wire sensor with a grey wire. The MAP is usually easiest to get to.
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Saturday, May 3rd, 2025 AT 4:59 PM
Tiny
AL514
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Heres a really good video on different types of ignition systems, he starts off with GMs bypass control, which will be helpful in understanding whats happening with the ICM. The 2nd video is just on GM bypass ICMs but its on an older type with no cam sensor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ijhi7ai1HY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxPdxGqRWvc
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Saturday, May 3rd, 2025 AT 5:08 PM
Tiny
BRUCEDUNCAN
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Today is June 2, 2025
2003 monte carlo 3.8 ltr.
Dear Al, I want to make sure my pcm is getting power on the pink (ignition) wire. My Haynes manual shows it's a pink wire from a fuse box to the pcm but doesn't list connector or pin # at the pcm. My pcm has 2 connectors, a blue connector and a clear connector. The clear connector has a pink wire on pin 24 is that the (ignition) wire? It has battery voltage at the pcm (key on) and about 11 volts or a little less while cranking. The voltage drop on the wire back to the battery + post was.08 volts dc so there is no resistance issue.

I will see if my map sensor has 5 volts when cranking after I make sure the pcm is getting power. Bruce
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Monday, June 2nd, 2025 AT 3:20 PM
Tiny
BRUCEDUNCAN
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You missread my bypass voltage entry. After the car died, I had 5 volts while cranking on the bypass circuit tan/black stripe wire at the ICM for about 4 months. I never said the car had 5 volts while running. About 6 to 8 weeks ago I checked my bypass voltage at the pcm and icm while cranking. It's now 0 volts something bad happened but I don't know what.
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Monday, June 2nd, 2025 AT 4:30 PM

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