Idle, engine surging, shuts off

Tiny
ELIPWOLF
  • MEMBER
  • 1987 FORD CROWN VICTORIA
  • 5.0L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 74,500 MILES
Hello, this is an EFI vehicle with a new IAC, the air filter is clean. Here is what keeps happening: it always starts, sometimes it just takes 2 or 3 tries. When I am parallel parking or the car is on some type of a slant, say going into a parking structure, and I have to stop, the engine will cut out sometimes, then I have to put it back into park and fire it up again, it starts right up. This cut out of the engine also occurs if I am executing a turn and have to stop and put vehicle into reverse. The guy I bought it from just replaced the IAC valve on the 23rd of February 2022 and says that it "may need to be adjusted" I live in CA. So, there is no real cold weather. When I stop at red lights, the engine will begin surging somewhat and if my foot is not on the brake this surge accelerates the car forward in mild surges. I've driven down empty streets and let this take place, not depressing the gas or brakes, and the car accelerates in surges about every 3 seconds.
Monday, March 14th, 2022 AT 10:35 PM

19 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,254 POSTS
Hi,

The IAC really isn't adjustable on this vehicle. The idea that it surges could be a few different things as well. For example, have you checked for engine vacuum leaks? If not, it would be a good place to start. Here is a link explaining how it's done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-an-engine-vacuum-gauge

If nothing is found, then check to see if there are diagnostic trouble codes stored. This vehicle has an OBD1 computer system. It doesn't require a scan tool to retrieve codes. Follow the directions in this link and let me know if you retrieve any codes and what they are:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/ford-lincoln-mercury-obd1-1995-and-earlier-diagnostic-trouble-code-definition-and-retrieval

If you look at the pic below, it shows the self-test connector location. It will be under the hood, driver's side toward the rear of the inner fender liner.

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,

Joe

See pic below.
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Tuesday, March 15th, 2022 AT 6:45 PM
Tiny
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Joe- thank you so much for your kind help, sir. I really appreciate it.
I was able ( I believe) to locate the obd1 self-test connectors- they were more toward the front end. Today I called the authorized Ford dealership near me and for a scan and diagnosing of the vehicle they are telling me $185.00 usd.
Are there dishonest mechanics who will try and scam me even at authorized dealerships?
Also, there are two dipsticks in the engine- a yellow one which I thought was the oil dipstick until today I found the black handled oil dipstick with the oil type engraved on the dipstick itself. I just payed a Craigslist mechanic and he replaced the radiator and put in new bushings on the front- no problem, but he didn't know how to find the obd1 and also he checked the yellow dipstick and said it was my oil dipstick(?) This money is getting too costly for me but I need a thorough trustworthy quality service of the vehicle done - I want the transmission solenoids checked to make sure the transmission is in tip top shape. The rear differential is sort of covered in grime so there may need gaskets replaced- and the solenoids requires the whole pan be removed I guess - what would you suggest because I don't have the tools or the lifts or the know-how but I also don't want to be scammed and overcharged. Do you catch my drift?
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Wednesday, March 16th, 2022 AT 6:15 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

I understand completely. And unfortunately, there are people who will scam regardless of the location, dealership or not.

As far as the transmission, are there any shifting issues? At 75,000 miles, I wouldn't expect transmission problems on this vehicle. As far as the differential, can you take a few pictures of it and upload them for me to, see? Hopefully, I'll be able to determine where the leak is coming from. However, I would recommend checking the fluid level in the differential. If it is covered in dirty oil, you don't want it to get too low. There should be a plug on the cover and the gear lube should be at the bottom of the plug opening.

Are you able to perform the test for codes?

Let me know.

Joe
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Wednesday, March 16th, 2022 AT 7:47 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe,

Thank you so much again. So, appreciated. No I have not performed the test for the codes. Also- the rear differential, I don't think I can get sufficiently under there without a jack or lift. Today I took the vehicle on the freeway, it has the brand new radiator in it, and when I got to my destination I noticed it was leaking, so I opened up the radiator cap and I couldn't see any fluid, and there was coolant sort of sprayed around the air intake and other areas, I could not exactly identify where it was coming out of, so anyways the craigslist mechanic who put it in said he would stop by later today and check it out.
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Thursday, March 17th, 2022 AT 2:17 PM
Tiny
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No problem. The differential can be leaking from only a couple of places, the cover on the rear of it or the front pinion seal. If possible, let me know if you are able to get pics.

As far as the radiator, it sounds like the upper radiator hose may be the cause. Let me know what he tells you. If you want to get a few pics of where it is wet, upload them for me to see.

Take care and I'll watch for your reply.

Joe
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Thursday, March 17th, 2022 AT 2:54 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe- I really want to thank you for this help. This mechanic I got from craigslist, who put the new radiator and bushings in, he came by last night to check out the leak. He seemed to determine that it was coming from the transmission cooling line at the radiator. He attempted a fix, first by tightening it at the radiator. He then had me drive it around the block and looked at it again and determined that it was still leaking. He tried tightening it up more a bit and was having me start the engine, each time determining that it was still leaking. He then went to his vehicle and came back with a shiny new fixture-the one that came with the radiator he told me, and he tried to connect the hose to the radiator using this new fixture that came w the radiator- he said the reason that he did not use this new one the first time was because he could not get the hose to fit into it properly, so he just used the old one. So, he had me start it up after he finally was able to connect to the new one and it was leaking even worse. So, this is what he did, he went and got some thread sealer and connected the hose to the radiator using the old fixture or nut or whatever it is called. He said it takes 72 hours to cure not to drive it. No problem- this is my question to you- so- there was the green ish coolant liquid sort of on parts of the engine around the radiator- but when I got under the vehicle I was noticing the color of the little bit of liquid that had dripped onto the cement from the radiator and from some unknown other components right around the same area, going about a foot back, this liquid was a reddish color- initially I believed it was the coolant just mixed with some of the oil that was on the surface of some of the undercarriage. But upon researching I see it could be a rusty transmission cooling hose or transmission fluid- and this, from what I read can lead to a big problem. Would the car be leaking both reddish fluid and green coolant if the leak, or, the only leak, was coming from the transmission cooling hose at the radiator? Please let me know exactly what to either photo or check into further regarding this radiator issue. (I am working on the pics of differential) Joe, thank you so very much kind sir.
Eli
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Friday, March 18th, 2022 AT 9:43 AM
Tiny
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One more thing I wanted to mention is that I have no idea who this mechanic is, if he is good, he seems honest kind of I guess but I wish he had communicated with me about not using the original fixture. What I am trying to say is this guy might end up ruining my car due to his faulty diagning or fixes. He did not sufficiently address the reddish fluid I felt and he didnt explain to me whether there might be rust in the transmission cooling hose, whether the hose was new, nothing really. I had to research after he left. He also said the cap may need to be replaced but my point is he did not satisfy me with regards to clearly articulating the source and cause of the reddish fluid and if his fix was going to resolve this. Can you enlighten me maybe on this issue?
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Friday, March 18th, 2022 AT 9:51 AM
Tiny
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I hope some of these help. Joe, it was hard to get up under the car and take them with a decent perspective having no jack or lift. The front end has a lot of grimy oil covering different parts and so I tried to photo them for you.
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Friday, March 18th, 2022 AT 5:09 PM
Tiny
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The mechanic did not perform a cooling system flush either prior to changing the radiator. He has me buy the radiator off rock auto- sends the link, and this is directly from their page on the radiator:
"Completely drain and flush the system using Cooling System Flush prior to installation. Flushing the system is critical to prevent system contamination and failure."
could this be what the problem is?
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Friday, March 18th, 2022 AT 6:31 PM
Tiny
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Joe, sorry if I am overwhelming you here man- I am pretty sure this radiator problem is a result of the mechanics failure to flush out the cooling system first. What's done is done. Can you please tell me if this can somehow be remedied, is it going to really mess up the engine? What would you do in my shoes to redeem this issue? Is not flushing the cooling system a huge deal or probably no biggie or what? The mechanic won't respond to me so far. Please help if you can. Take care. Eli
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Friday, March 18th, 2022 AT 7:04 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

As far as the flush, it would have been good to do, but in most cases isn't needed. Okay, is there a new problem with the radiator? Also, the transmission fluid is red in color. Since the radiator was recently replaced, that could be residual. The transmission cooling lines won't rust internally. The fluid prevents it. However, they have been known to rust from the outside and begin leaking.

Before we get overly concerned, do me a favor. Wipe off anything with coolant or transmission fluid. Start the vehicle and see if it reappears.

Let me know what you find. Also, hang in there. We'll get it figured out. One other thing, the differential has some dirt, but it is much better than most. LOL If you can, confirm the fluid is full. If it is, I feel it will be fine.

I will watch for your reply.

Take care,

Joe
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Friday, March 18th, 2022 AT 7:19 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe- thank you once again. I was relieved to hear you tell me that the cooling system flush not being performed is not too big of a deal, may I ask you- can I still somehow perform this flush with the new radiator already installed?
As far as leaking goes, yes, I got under the vehicle and dried everything off. I have to wait until Monday so the Permatex thread sealer he used to have its full 3 days to cure, then I will drive the vehicle and see if it is still leaking the 'residual' transmission red fluid or leaking coolant from the radiator
As far as the differential goes can you explain to me where I can find this plug to view the level of fluid you have instructed me to? I am not seeing anything that looks like a plug, however, it is difficult getting up under there, the trunk is very huge on this vehicle, so the differential is way back there and I got no jack

can't tell you how much I appreciate this correspondence and help Joe! Thanks

Eli
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Saturday, March 19th, 2022 AT 10:35 AM
Tiny
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Also I got under and looked at the transmission cooling line hoses and there is no rust on the outside.
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Saturday, March 19th, 2022 AT 10:37 AM
Tiny
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Hello Joe,

Thank you for your help.
Here is an update:
I checked into the curing time on the Permatex thread sealant and ras able to determine that it cured. I drove to an AutoZone, I bought some coolant and a new radiator cap. I topped off the radiator and put a new cap on. I drove around, got it up to speed, the leak at the radiator trans cooling hose held and it is no longer leaking anywhere from that point at the radiator.
However, there is a new leak that is leaking coolant from right about at where the center console is directly below the dashboard from below the vehicle. It is cool. It drips after I park and drips for about 2 minutes then stops. It drips approximately 1 to 2 maybe table spoons of coolant.

The car does not get hot, but very curiously, there is no engine heat gauge anywhere in the car. There is only the following:
trip odometer
odometer
speedometer
check engine light
battery light
fuel gauge
seatbelt light
check oil light
parking brake light
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Saturday, March 19th, 2022 AT 5:02 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Chances are the temperature gauge is only a light that turns on if there is an issue. However, the coolant leak is a different issue.

If you are leaking coolant in the vehicle (from under the dash), the heater core is likely leaking. This is a relatively large job. Do me a favor. Take a look through this link to get a general idea of how it is done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/replace-heater-core

I would be happy to supply the directions specific to your vehicle, but I need to know if it has air conditioning or not. If it does, I need to know if it has automatic climate control or manual control. The procedures are different for each design.

Also, if I recall correctly, you will need to remove the dash pad. If it has AC, you will need to evacuate the Freon from the A/C system. It actually calls for nearly 5 hours of labor.

Let me know.

Take care,

Joe

PS: I wish I had better news, but coolant leaking in the vehicle is almost always a heater core.
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Saturday, March 19th, 2022 AT 7:51 PM
Tiny
ELIPWOLF
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Hello Joe,

Thank you for your reply.
Just to be clear, there is no coolant leaking from inside of the vehicle. I apologize if I made it unclear-my bad- when I said under the dashboard-around the center console - I was referring to that sort of mid-point of the vehicle-but the coolant is coming from the undercarriage of the vehicle below that area dripping onto the cement.
The vehicle has a manual A/C that I have never used in about 3 weeks I have owned it.

There is definitely no coolant leaking in the cabin of the vehicle -whew!

But with this heater core thing you mention that was one of the things that was mentioned to suffer from not flushing the cooling system prior to installing a new radiator.
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Saturday, March 19th, 2022 AT 9:21 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

I'm glad to know it isn't inside. The replacement process isn't fun. LOL

Do me a favor. Based on the location (under the vehicle), I need you to open the hood and inspect the heater core hoses. These hoses supply coolant to the heater core in the vehicle. They run between the engine and the firewall under the hood.

I attached a pic below and highlighted the two hoses. Check to see if they are leaking where they connect or at another location near the firewall.

Also, here is a link you may find helpful:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-is-leaking-coolant

Take care and let me know what you find.

Joe

See pic below.
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Saturday, March 19th, 2022 AT 10:01 PM
Tiny
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Hello Joe, thank you again for your time and help. I took the vehicle to a mechanic recommended by the church I attend. He located where the coolant was leaking from, he pointed it out to me and I saw it seeping out from the throttle body. He sent me to get a throttle body. I went and was told at AutoZone it needed a throttle body gasket. I bought a gasket and went back to the mechanic. He said that it needs a new throttle body spacer. I have to special order it for about $100.00. I described all the symptoms I explained to you as well. The engine cutting out when parallel parking and shifting gears etc. I told him I thought it was the IAC, he said that it's the throttle body spacer. My question to you Joe is based on all the symptoms and in light of the coolant leaking out of the throttle body. Does this fix make sense to you? I just don't want to be told after I buy the spacer that I need a different component as well because there are about 8 different components just making up the throttle body.

Also, he does not have an obd1 device and came right out and said that he did not normally work on cars this old. However, when I drove up, he immediately began talking about Lincoln Grand Marquis which is the same Panther 5.0 v8 efi engine -lol.

Thanks for any insight you can add- hopefully this fix will make sense to you. Also, let me know please.

Thank you,
Eli
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Monday, March 21st, 2022 AT 7:55 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

If there is a leak at the throttle body, certainly that can cause the issues. If he took the time to show you the leak, he sounds honest. That makes me feel better.

Regardless, yes it does make sense. Let me know how things turn out for you.

Take care,

Joe
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Monday, March 21st, 2022 AT 8:09 PM

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