Crank no start

Hi,

Do you hear the fuel pump working? Also, have you confirmed there is fuel pressure within the manufacturer's specifications?

The throttle plate won't prevent it from starting. There is an idle air control valve that allows air to enter the engine.

Have you scanned the computer for diagnostic trouble codes? Does it do the same thing when you try starting fluid? And one more question, if there is no change when trying starting fluid, have you confirmed there is spark to the plugs?

Here is a link that explains how to test for spark. Also, there is one that reviews the most common causes of a crank no start condition.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-not-running-advanced

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

Let me know as much as you can.

Take care,

Joe

Do you hear the fuel pump working?
Yes
Also, have you confirmed there is fuel pressure within the manufacturer's specifications?
No i haven't done that
With the starting fluid it starts sometimes
Ive only checked spark on one cylinder and it had good spark.

I'll scan the car and check for spark on the other cylinders

Okay, start with those checks. Also, if there is spark to the plugs, we need to confirm there is a signal to the injectors.

Here is how to do it. At each of the injectors, there will be a brown wire with a yellow tracer. On each injector, that wire should have 12v at all times with the key in the start or run position. Check for power. If there is none, go to fuse 26 in the under-hood fuse box. Inspect the fuse. In addition to checking the fuse, confirm there is power to and from it.

Here is a link to help:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

I attached two pics below from the wiring schematic. One shows the fuse and the other shows the injector wiring.

Let me know what you find.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.

Fuel injectors are getting 12 volts fuse 26 is good.

Okay, that's good.

Here is what we need to check for next. Now that we know the injectors are getting power, I want you to try something. Using starting fluid, see if it starts for a couple of seconds and then stalls. If it does, then we know it is a fuel-related issue.

If that is the case, I need you to check for an injector pulse. Basically, the test is the same but with the opposite wire on the injector. Follow the directions in this link and let me know what you find. Note: The injector pulse portion of the link is approximately the second thing covered.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

Let me know what you find.

Joe

I did the starting fluid diag and it acted like it wanted to start but didn't. Thinking about doing a compression test.

Before going to the trouble (which still may be needed), check to see if there is an injector pulse. If there is, then a compression test makes perfect sense. It's just a lot easier to test for a pulse. It may save you a lot of time and energy.

Regardless, let me know what you decide and find.

Take care,

Joe

The injectors only get 12volts when starting the car. Not when the key is in the run position. Fuse 26 is good.

Hi,

Take a look below. I need you to check the additional fuses I highlighted and the ASD relay. The fuses are in the TIPM, and the relay is also under the hood in the relay box.

If the fuses are good and have power to and from them, pull the ASD relay and inspect where it connects in the box. Make sure none of the pins are pushed or damaged.

Next, if there is a relay with the same part number, switch them. If there isn't, here is a link that explains how one is check one:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

See pic below for reference.

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,

Joe

See pic below.

I think the timing may be off. Vehicles getting spark, fuel and compression is good.

If possible, record it cranking and upload it for me to hear. Also, what was the compression reading, and does it start for a couple seconds using starting fluid.

Let me know.

Joe

Compression was at 180 at the cylinders. It doesn't start with starting fluid. I believe its either the engine computer or timing.

Hi,

Compression is good. If you have spark, it should at least fire with starting fluid. Is that happening? If it is timing (engine component timing), the compression wouldn't be that good. If it was ignition timing, I would expect to hear it backfire.

Let me know.

Joe

Definitely not starting with starting with starting fluid. Definitely not backfiring. I think it's the engine computer.

Hi,

Anything is possible, but with spark, fuel, and compression, we are missing something because it should do something.

When you checked for spark, was it a blue snapping spark or was it more of an orange or white color?

Joe

Orange. Was definitely a weak spark.

Hi,

Okay, that is the likely problem. We need to regroup. I need you to check for diagnostic trouble codes using a scanner that can read the can-bus system. CAN stands for controller area network. Basically, all the computers/modules are tied together via a few wires. This type of scan will identify codes regardless of the issue. Here is a link that shows how it's done.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/can-scan-controller-area-network-easy

I'm suggesting this be done because there are several things that can cause a weak spark. When we started diagnosing, it would start at times with starting fluid. Now it doesn't, so at least we can be somewhat confident it isn't a fuel-related issue. However, there are several different sets of diagnostics for the ignition system. But without having a code, it will be very difficult to determine. The diagnostics can be very extensive.

Let me know if that is something you can have done.

Take care,

Joe

Yeah. I have a CAN scanner. I'll let you know what I find

Excellent. Let me know the results. Hopefully, this will be an inexpensive and easy fix.

Take care,

Joe

Did a spark test and confirmed spark is strong and good. Car does start for a few sounds with starting fluid. I'm thinking it's either bad gas or a weak fuel pump.

Did a fuel pressure test when fuel is primed its around 55 PSI when starting the vehicle, it drops to around 40 to 35 PSI.

Hi,

I'm getting confused. You indicated it didn't start with starting fluid.

Okay, the fuel pressure is perfect until you crank the engine. As far as fuel pressure, 35 to 40 is too low. However, I would expect it to start and then stall. Is that happening? Also, you indicated above that the ignition coils get power in the start position but not in the on position. Is that correct? If so, have you checked the relays I mentioned above?

Let me know.

Joe

In the beginning it didn't start with the starting fluid but after replacing the camshaft position sensor it starts and stalls with the starting fluid now.
I also misdiagnosed the spark. The spark is strong and excellent. The spark and compression is excellent.

Okay, I had you check the injectors for power, and you indicated there is. So, that should be fine. That leaves fuel pressure. You originally indicated you couldn't hear the fuel pump running, so the pump was replaced and the pressure is within the manufacturer's specs.

Here is the thing. We have spark, fuel, and compression. It starts with starting fluid, so we know it isn't a timing issue. Therefore, it should run, so we are missing something simple.

There is one last thing we can check and that is to confirm the fuel injectors are pulsing. They can have power, but if the PCM doesn't provide a ground path, they won't inject fuel.

You can use a test light or a noid light to check for this. Follow the directions in this link and let me know the results:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

Let me know.

Joe

I used a Noid light and it passed. Noid light flashed consistently while cranking the engine.

Hi,

Do me a favor. Record it cranking and upload it for me to hear. If you have spark, proper fuel pressure, the injectors are pulsing, and the compression is good, the engine should run.

Let me know.

Joe

Turned out to be the crank and cam shaft position sensors.

Hi,

Thank you for the update. I appreciate and am glad to know it's running for you. I'm surprised you had spark if the crankshaft position sensor was bad, but anything is possible.

Please feel free to come back anytime in the future if you have questions or need help. You're always welcome here.

Take care,

Joe