Car will not start

Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
  • MEMBER
  • 1993 BMW 320I
  • 2.0L
  • 6 CYL
  • RWD
  • MANUAL
  • 189,000 MILES
This problem started about three or four months ago after it had rained.

But some background first:

I had purchased this car about two years ago and drove it less than two hundred and fifty miles in that time. For the first four months I started the car about once a week. I then had to store it for six months. After that I was able to drive the car around my neighborhood about once or twice a week. In this two year period I have put about two hundred and fifty to two hundred and eighty miles on the car. During this time period I purchased a new battery and then had to have it replaced after six months because it was totally drained (the car has an alarm fitted as standard) after having the car parked for four months.

When I was able to start it regularly it ran absolutely fine until the gas gauge showed yellow indicating it was near empty. Around this time it rained heavily and when I tried to start the car it would not fire though it turned over. Thinking I had run out of fuel I went and got a gallon of gas in a spare gas tank and put that it in. The car eventually started but the exhaust was very thick blue smoke like it was burning oil. It sputtered for a few minutes and belched out this crap before settling down to the way it used to run before this incident happened with the smoke clearing up completely.

Leaving the car in my driveway this way without going and filling up, I tried to start the car a day or so later and it would not start. What happened is that the engine turned over and then suddenly stopped as though, literally, a spanner had been thrown in between the starter motor gear and engine flywheel. It stopped with a thunk. I tried a few times to start the car and the same thing would happen or the engine would not turn over at all but the lights inside the cabin would just dim as though a great drain on the battery was occurring when trying to start the car.

Thinking that the starter motor had gone, I purchased a new starter motor and installed it along with a new fuel filter, a new rubber boot that goes between the throttle body and the mass air flow sensor and a new hose that goes from the mass air flow sensor to the idle regulating valve.

This took about two months as I had to order parts bit by bit.

When I got everything put back together again and double checked everything that I had done, I recharged the battery with a battery charger, hooked everything up and tried starting the car. I was able to get the engine to partially run for a second or so but then it would not fire so I kept the engine turning over for a good thirty seconds before I stopped.

Thinking that the fuel had not had time to get to the injectors, I tried starting again and the old problem came back of the engine turning over then abruptly coming to a stop with a thunk after a second or so.

I took the battery out and found that it had low charge it had been drained by the attempt to start the car fir that thirty second stretch it seems. So I recharged the battery and then tried to start the car the next day. The same problem occurred the engine would turn over very briefly before abruptly stopping. Sometimes it would not turn at all but the lights would dim inside the cabin.

In all the above scenarios the starter motor never gave a clicking noise (which I think indicates not enough power getting to the starter). It would either start and quickly stop with a thunk or not turn at all. And that is both starters doing this.

I took the battery out and went to have it tested and it was fine it had about 1000 cranking amps and showed slightly higher than 13 volts.

I was told by the chap who tested the battery that it could be the alternator, but before spending that sort of money I wanted to get your advice on this problem.

I have read the other issues about the engine not starting on other BMW E36s that people have posted here but my situation seems to be slightly different so am wondering if the issue that I have is different too.

I forgot to add one thing, just prior to finishing the installation of the new starter motor I added 16 Oz of Klotz Octane boost to my gas tank as well as one gallon of gas. The fuel gauge is just above reserve and the yellow reserve light does not light up when the ignition is turned on.

I look forward to receiving your response. Thanking you in advance.
Thursday, August 10th, 2017 AT 6:31 AM

49 Replies

Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
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Hello,

It sounds like you have a fuel injector that is sticking and filling a cylinder with gas not allowing the engine to cranks over. Can you remove all of the spark plugs to see if one looks much different then the others please?

Here is a guide that will show you how

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-change-spark-plugs

Please let us know what you find.

Cheers, Ken

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Monday, August 14th, 2017 AT 9:31 AM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Hi Ken,

This morning this is just what I did!

The 5 that I could remove were all black and covered in soot.

Number 1 cylinder spark plug was wet with gas while the other 4 were not.

Number 5 cylinder spark plug had 2-3 inches of water in the spark plug area (the hole that the spark sits in). I soaked this water up with a kitchen towel prior to removing the spark plug to check it.

I could not get number 6 to undo because I was using the BMW provided tool from the toolkit so I was not able to get that much leverage. I will buy a spark plug socket to remove that last one to check it.

The 5 spark plugs I was able to remove I cleaned with a green scotch brite pad. I thought this was the best thing to do as there is something wrong elsewhere due to the mixture being very rich, hence the blackened plugs.

So until I get that resolved I don't want to spend $10 per plug only to have the same thing happen to the new ones. Any ideas which sensor failure is causing the rich condition of the mixture?

How do I get rid of the gas (if there is any) in cylinder 1?

I will endeavor to clean the fuel injectors over the next few days.

One more thing to add. I have filled my gas tank to about the 60L mark which is nearly at the full level. I have also had to take the battery out again to charge it.

By the way, I got about 250 miles to a tank. This tells me too much fuel is being burnt (hence the blackened spark plugs).
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Monday, August 14th, 2017 AT 9:50 AM
Tiny
KEN L
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There is a port (below) that a BMW scan tool can connect to to read any codes the car will have. It sounds like we have a sensor or a injector that is shorted but to tell whats going on we must read the codes.

Here is the post I am talking about

Here is the tool adapter

https://www.amazon.com/ASSEM-BMW-Round-Diagnostic-Scanner-Adapter/dp/B00VACZMRI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1502903910&sr=8-5&keywords=bmw+obd+1+code+tool

then we can read the codes like a normal OBD2 car

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/checking-a-service-engine-soon-or-check-engine-light-on-or-flashing

Please let us know what happens.

Cheers, Ken
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Wednesday, August 16th, 2017 AT 10:19 AM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Hi Ken,

I have ordered a fuel injector service parts kit: http://www.mrinjectorparts.com/store/p31/BMW_Injector_Service_Kits_With_Fin_Style_Caps_008.html

I am also buying an OBD I scanner and adapter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Creator-C110-OBD-Diagnostic-Code-Reader-20PIN-For-BMW-Scanner-Tool-US-STOCK/182507735626?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055359.m2763.l2649

I will let you know what the results are. This won't be for a few weeks though as they will be shipped to the USA first, then on to me.

Thanks for all the info so far.
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Wednesday, August 16th, 2017 AT 2:38 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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No Problem that's what we are here for :)
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Wednesday, August 16th, 2017 AT 9:06 PM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Hi Ken,

Today I got all my injectors cleaned up with new spacers, filters, pintel caps and O-rings fitted. I had cleaned all the injectors with carb cleaner and number 5 was found to be letting fuel out when it was closed. That went away after the injector was cleaned. All injectors had the same spray pattern and volume - this was an eyeball view of volume coming out so it may not be as accurate as doing it on a machine.

Anyway, having fitted all the injectors back and put everything back together again I tried starting the car. Same problem - it wouldn't start. This time I tried starting it in very short bursts of turning the engine over - not like I did the last time. No go.

So I attached my OBD scanner tool to the plug inside the engine compartment - by the left side (passenger side). I turned the key to the on position (to the position just before engaging the starter) and a Communication error was all I got on the OBD unit.

BUT the other big thing that occurred, which I didn't pick up on right away, was fuel was pouring out of the front of the mass air flow sensor (I knew it was fuel because I put my finger in it and smelt it) - right where it joins the air box. Also the fan (I saw that the car has two) right behind the front grill (as opposed to the one coming off the engine) was on when the key was in the ignition, turned on but the engine not running. The fuel was pouring out of the location above with the key in this position (on, but no engine running so that the lights were on, dash board lights were on, etc). Having removed the air box and turned the engine on again I confirmed that fuel was coming out from inside the mass air flow sensor. I hope that doesn't mean that the entire intake manifold has been filled with fuel. I am somewhat puzzled as to how this occurred as I labeled all the items I had to disconnect, albeit with colored tape and nothing else - no notes on the tape. I didn't think that I would get anything mixed up!

This is a new development and has me very worried. I suspect that the two hoses that attach under the mass air flow sensor boot (the boot that goes between the mass air flow sensor and the throttle body) have been put back on to the wrong holes (have I inadvertently switched them around?) But I will leave that alone until I hear from you.

All this work and still no car running. I hope that things can be resolved.

PS. I do find this behaviour very odd (the fuel pouring out of the mass air flow sensor) as when I tried starting the car after fitting the new starter and mass air flow sensor-to-throttle body boot, this symptom was not occurring as far as I can remember. I would have seen fuel coming out from underneath the car (like it did this time) and would have written about it. Maybe something else has broken? Or maybe something has got loose.
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Saturday, September 2nd, 2017 AT 5:24 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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Fuel can only come from the fuel system, you still must have an injector problem. Remove all of the spark plugs to see which one is wet this will be the injector that is shorted, drain the engine oil and refill with fresh, do not plug in the injector over the cylinder with the wet plug, this should get it running.

Please let us know what you find.

Cheers, Ken
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Monday, September 4th, 2017 AT 2:00 PM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Hi Ken,

Before doing anything with the spark plugs I checked to see where the fuel was coming from (without the OBD scanner plugged in) and found that the fuel was coming out of the inlet manifold. Looking down through the butterfly valve I could see a lot of fuel just sitting there in a puddle. Also when just turning the ignition on, without turning over the engine, the fuel pump was pumping fuel and it was coming out of this area so fuel was going into the fuel rail and somehow making its way into the inlet manifold and out through where the throttle body attaches to the inlet manifold. There were no leaks anywhere else.

Well. After taking out all the spark plugs I saw that 1, 2 and 3 were wet. 4, 5 and 6 were quite dry in comparison with 4 being the only 'clean' one. 5 and 6 had what looked like rust on the edge of the spark plug - which is strange as they were all cleaned with a scotch brite pad to the point of being nice and shiny (I have added images of spark plugs 5 and 6 compared to no. 4. Spark plug. 5 and 6 are the only ones to exhibit this 'rusting' characteristic).

After taking out the spark lugs I looked down into each cylinder with a bright LED flashlight and did not see any wetness - they 'looked' dry.

So next, I turned the engine over, after taking the fuse out for the fuel pump, to put the pistons in different positions to get a better view of them - this is when the real problem revealed itself. As soon as the engine turned over a very large plume/spray of fuel came out of one of the cylinders. I stopped immediately and went to have a look. ALL the cylinders had fuel in them - to the degree that when I moved the car I could see the fuel sloshing around in all the cylinders. I double-checked each cylinder again for this and found this to be the case.

I have checked the fuses and they all seem to be fine. But I will check more thoroughly. Does that mean that the ECU has gone? That's the only thing I can think of. As somehow the signal is not getting to the injectors and/or the spark plugs.

A word about the injectors - when cleaning them I rigged up a switch to activate them. I basically bought an injector socket that fit this particular type (EV1) and wired up a manually activated thumb switch. When the switch is connected to the battery and the button is pushed it opens the injectors. Each injector was operating fine - in that when the button was pushed it opened the injector and the cleaning fluid I was using (via a syringe, hoses and barb connectors) was able to come out. When the button was released the fluid stopped coming out of the injector. I could also hear the clicking of each injector I was cleaning opening and closing.

This is turning into something that is not very good for me. Mind you I am learning a lot! Haha!

The spark plugs are placed 4, 5 and 6 from left to right

PS. Thinking more on this it seems that the injectors are working but the spark plugs are not getting current to them otherwise how can all that fuel have gotten into the cylinders? If I found that they worked when cleaning them there must be either a signal that is making them stay open or there is no current going to the spark plugs, or am I missing something?
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Monday, September 4th, 2017 AT 4:20 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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I don't know why I didn't think of this before but pull the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator to see if fuel is present. Here is a diagram (below).

PS I uploaded the images for you what format where you trying to load?
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Tuesday, September 5th, 2017 AT 11:40 AM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Hi Ken,

Getting to that vacuum line is not going to be easy as it is right at the back of the fuel rail but I will see what I can do.

Check out the images below
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Tuesday, September 5th, 2017 AT 12:41 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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They look clean but I would go with new just to be safe and know they are not a problem. They can still short out down the electrode.
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Wednesday, September 6th, 2017 AT 2:18 PM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Ok. I will do that.
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Wednesday, September 6th, 2017 AT 2:27 PM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Hi Ken,

I was eventually able to get the vacuum line off. No fuel came out but the nipple was slightly wet. I also looked down the hose, as far as I could, and there was nothing coming out. I am not sure if there was lack of fuel because so much time had gone by, causing fuel and fuel pressure to decrease, or whether this is what should be the state of things in a normally running car. So what I have done is purchased a wireless endoscope:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HD-Endoscope-Snake-Borescope-Hard-Inspection-CameraLED-USB-for-Android-Iphone-HQ/202036420631?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=502033792089&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

This will allow me to position the camera end so that it points at the fuel pressure regulator and see the live video feed on my iPad while I am in the car. I will then turn the key to the on but engine off position so that the fuel pump starts and then see what happens. The endoscope is going to take a while to get here as it is coming from China/Taiwan.

I have also purchased a very large syringe (150ml) and hose:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150ml-Large-Nutrient-Measuring-Plastic-Syringe-Handy-Sterile-Tubing-Tube/111932309941?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

so that I can suck out any fuel left in the cylinders and inlet manifold after checking the fuel pressure regulator.

I have already purchased the spark plugs and am wondering if I should also buy a fuel pressure regulator too. Just in case....
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 3:19 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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Nice work we are working on a video upload feature should be ready by Monday you can show the world what you have found. Cant wait.

Let me know.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 6:07 PM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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It will be a few weeks before I have anything.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 9:01 PM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Instead of waiting for the endoscope to arrive I went ahead and tested the fuel pressure regulator. I used my camera to film what I saw.

After putting the fuse back in for my fuel pump, I turned the ignition to the on, engine off, position and observed what occurred.

No fuel came out of the vacuum line nipple on the fuel pressure regulator. What I found though was that fuel was coming out of the throttle body and also from the hose boot that goes between the mass air flow sensor and the throttle body. Although it could be anti freeze that was coming out of the boot as it had a slightly green color. Whereas the fuel coming out of the throttle body was nearly colorless. When smelling the liquid that was coming out from underneath the car (as the liquid was falling down onto the floor) it smelt like fuel. I went to my antifreeze container and smelled that and it did not have the same smell as what I was smelling when smelling the liquid from the floor. This could be though due to the two liquids mixing. I have the video, which is in. MOV format and I look forward to uploading it when that feature is ready.

I am a bit stumped how fuel could be coming out of the throttle body, and liquid (whatever it is) coming out of the boot hose. Some one-way valve (maybe?) Somewhere has failed?
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Friday, September 8th, 2017 AT 9:56 AM
Tiny
KEN L
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This is strange, I would start taking it part to see what part has failed Its just the up part shouldn't take to long. Please upload a picture of the failed part so it will help others.
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Saturday, September 9th, 2017 AT 4:32 PM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Today I tested further about where the liquid was coming from.

I removed the end of the hose, which comes from the ICV (Idle Control Valve), that is attached to the boot hose that is between the throttle body and the mass air flow sensor. I then turned the key to the on, engine off position. I was able to train my camera on the throttle body and get the ICV hose and the boot hose in the same frame.

Fuel eventually overflowed from the hose I had detached that goes to the ICV. No liquid came out from the other smaller hose that is attached to the boot hose behind the ICV hose. The inlet manifold also filled with fuel as can be seen in the video. I also shot another short video showing me opening the butterfly valve and seeing the amount of fuel coming out.

This tells me that the fuel is coming from the hose that is underneath the inlet manifold and connects to the top of the ICV valve, goes through the ICV valve, then along the hose that connects to the boot hose between the mass air flow sensor and the throttle body.

Somehow, fuel is getting into the inlet manifold. The only way that I think that is happening is that fuel is getting into the cylinders and when they fill up, going through any open inlet valves into the inlet manifold. And the only way I can think of that happening is if any or all injectors were in the open position all at the same time. This should not be the case with the engine not running. It looks more and more likely that the ECU is faulty. Am waiting for your response as to my next move.

PS. I see Ken that you posted just before I did. I am not sure what I am looking for as no hoses are cracked or broken and I don't know how a broken ICV valve would look like. That hose between the ICV and the boot hose, which is also new, is new.
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Saturday, September 9th, 2017 AT 4:37 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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Are we sure that is it gas and not coolant? You have coolant lines running through the throttle body so I am wondering if it has rotted through and is letting coolant in? The video upload is delayed one day, sorry
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Monday, September 11th, 2017 AT 9:02 AM
Tiny
CHRISTOPHER SA
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Hi Ken,

That is a possibility. I will take off the throttle body from the inlet manifold and see what is going on with the lines. My understanding is that the coolant goes into the throttle body to heat up the metal of the throttle body itself so that in very cold weather the gas doesn't freeze. Similar to what anti-freeze does for the engine. There shouldn't be any way for the coolant to actually get into the throat of the throttle body but I will see if there has been a breach somewhere.

The only other puzzle to sort out is: why is there movement of coolant (if that is indeed the liquid coming out) with the key in the on, engine off position? I thought the water pump was run by the serpentine belt drive. Yes it is after just checking on this.

As to the liquid coming out of the ICV that was defiinately the case. But I will let you know what I find.

Thanks for walking me through all this. Your time is much appreciated.
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Monday, September 11th, 2017 AT 11:57 AM

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