Sudden crank not start issue

Tiny
NASER NASER
  • MEMBER
  • 2003 BMW X5
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 169,000 MILES
Car throwing a code in the picture attached. She will turn over but not start. Problem started all of a sudden so not sure if it is a possibility. I repossessed this car from someone and when I got it it started so I turned it off. Now it just turns over and over. Tachometer needle not moving up at all as it should usually start to go up even a bit.
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Sunday, February 16th, 2020 AT 2:43 PM

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Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

If you have no RPM signal, and based on the code, it sounds like the crankshaft position sensor is bad. I realize the codes are cam sensor codes. Check the crank sensor connection to make sure it is good and not disconnected.

See picture 1 and let me know what you find.

Joe
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Sunday, February 16th, 2020 AT 4:26 PM
Tiny
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I see two in the picture, which one? I thought about the crankshaft sensor but didn't think it would just go out like that or it would give me a code, isn't it next to the starter or mounted to the bell housing of the transmission?
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Sunday, February 16th, 2020 AT 5:07 PM
Tiny
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I just remembered what happened, and by the way this was a voluntary repossession and the car was starting and rattling as the owner told me. After the repo truck brought it to my house I told him I want it down the street where I store some of my cars. He already had it unloaded from the truck and in my driveway so he just drive it to where it was waiting for him maybe 1 mile or less and before he was able to reach me. 200 feet away it stalled on him. So he loaded it on the truck again and brought it to me. I didn't check it then or tried to start it. When I did today it started for 2 seconds and then shut off, then made a popping noise when I tried to start it again and would not start.
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Sunday, February 16th, 2020 AT 6:03 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
The codes are for the two cam sensors. If the RPM signal is lost, my first suspect is the crankshaft position sensor which will directly affect ignition. What I would suggest is to see if the security has it shut down and if the engine is getting ignition spark.

If a live data scanner is available, use it so confirm there is no RPM signal.

Here is a link to help with checking for ignition spark and a general link that discusses the most common causes of a crank no start condition:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

Let me know what you find.

Joe

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+1
Sunday, February 16th, 2020 AT 6:53 PM
Tiny
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  • MEMBER
Thanks I am going to check that next. I just checked the fuse and was good, the relay switched it with another still no fuel pump sound and there is no 12v at the pump, so I removed the relay and primed the pump using a pin connecting it to 30/87, and the pump worked and I have 12volts. So the relay is okay I guess, and with the relay removed I checked and there is a 12v juice coming to the relay socket. The only reason I have not yet checked the crank position sensor is that the car is located at an incline and I can't yet tow it to my house. Does a bad crank shaft position sensor cuts off both spark and fuel?
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Monday, February 17th, 2020 AT 11:35 AM
Tiny
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  • EXPERT
You will lose both on this vehicle.

Let me know what you find.

Joe
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Monday, February 17th, 2020 AT 1:22 PM
Tiny
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Just replaced it and started the car and same issue. Even before replacing it I would still smell gas in the engine compartment, so we know there is fuel.
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Sunday, February 23rd, 2020 AT 10:07 AM
Tiny
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Cleared all codes and tried to start with starter fluid, nothing, still getting these camshaft codes only when starting, there is rpm based on this screen correct?
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Sunday, February 23rd, 2020 AT 10:52 AM
Tiny
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You don't think a bad fuel pump? I say that because the car cut off while being driven the last time she was on. And the previous owner told me she was starting but rattling.
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Sunday, February 23rd, 2020 AT 11:08 AM
Tiny
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Are there any fuses that control ignition spark?
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Sunday, February 23rd, 2020 AT 11:10 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
There isn't a fuse just for the spark. If it isn't starting with starting fluid it sounds like it isn't getting spark. Have you checked? Have you pulled plugs to see if they are wet?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

Let me know.

Joe
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Sunday, February 23rd, 2020 AT 8:13 PM
Tiny
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  • MEMBER
No have not. Thought about it. Would that cause it not to start at all? I thought they may start a bit rough but not at all?
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 3:49 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Honestly, if there is no spark to the plugs, it will not start or even try to start. The easiest way to determine if spark is present is by using starting fluid. If it starts for a couple seconds, then we know there is a fuel related issue. If it still doesn't, the next think is to check for spark. If there is spark, then we have a timing issue or compression issue.

Let me know what you find. Please let me know if you need help or have other questions.

Take care,
Joe
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 7:09 PM
Tiny
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What is easiest way to check for spark? Can I use a test light? What if there is no spark but there is fuel?
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 7:32 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
You can remove the plug from the engine, connect it to the coil and ground it so that you can see the electrode. Have some one crank the engine and you should get spark. Here is a link from above that explains how to check:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

If there is no spark, then we will need to check the crankshaft position sensor. Also, if you have a live data scanner, see if there is an RPM signal when cranking.

Joe
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Monday, February 24th, 2020 AT 8:42 PM
Tiny
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I already replaced the crank position sensor. Also included photos of the rpm signal, they are attached above.
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Tuesday, February 25th, 2020 AT 4:37 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Okay, have you checked for spark?

Joe
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Tuesday, February 25th, 2020 AT 6:07 PM
Tiny
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I checked it before I replaced the CPS using a test light as I had no one to assist me start the car, and there was no light. I grounded the test light and inserted the tip into a coil, no light, unless this test doesn't make sense.
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Tuesday, February 25th, 2020 AT 6:16 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
I don't think that will work. Honestly, I'm surprised it wouldn't burn out the light. Most test lights are for 12v. The coil does a lot more than that.
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Tuesday, February 25th, 2020 AT 6:39 PM
Tiny
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Just checked and there is spark. I don't see the spark plugs being wet, weird, I would have thought they were. I will check fuel pressure just to make sure, but am smelling fuel. I just don't hear the fuel pump running unless I jump the relay.
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Wednesday, February 26th, 2020 AT 8:13 AM

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