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Put the key in the ignition and turned the key, no starter noise?

Tiny
ALPHAA10
  • MEMBER
  • 1998 BUICK LESABRE
  • 3.8L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 280,000 MILES
Joe,

Last time I faced a non-start situation was September 14, 2021. Here is the link-- https://www.2carpros.com/questions/flashing-security-warning-on-dash-no-crank-no-click/r/991766741

This time, there is no security issue with the body control module, since the instrument panel indicator "Security" comes on briefly, and disappears again, and the ABS indicator flashes and disappears, as well.

The new problem appeared after I had driven at least ten miles around the city with no issues. I parked, turned off the ignition, locked the car doors, and went inside the house. I returned to the car about four hours later, put the key in the ignition, and turned the key-- no starter noise, but an instrument panel full of indicators.

(1) OIL, TEMP, BATT
(2) When I turn the ignition key ON, but not to start position, all the indicators light, but Security and ABS flash briefly but soon disappear.
(3) With key turned to start, foot on brake pedal, I hear no starter noise, with no change in indicator light intensity. Security and ABS indicators flash briefly, but soon disappear.

Already, I have checked the Minifuses and Maxifuses with a VOM, and all appear OK. I have not checked the relays, yet. Battery is OK, with driving lights full on.


Questions and Comments--

1. At first glance, this appears a starter relay issue, but I am rusty since the last time I traced the starter circuit 19 months ago. Going over my notes from 2021, my problem with checking the relay was concern about breaking the plastic relay housing, which is pushed over the relay connector until a clip clicks into place. In trying to release the relay cover. I have tried a straight-bladed screwdriver, without results-- is there a better technique?

2. Purchasing an OBD2 scanner seems a time-saver. Scanners will not provide every answer but can be useful on the road in determining what to do next. Do you have a list of features I should look for in selecting a scanner for the Buick 98? (Features like "live readout", on-device display or smartphone, Read/Erase data, etc.)
What brand and model seems to be what I need?

Thanks, Joe!
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Wednesday, May 3rd, 2023 AT 2:40 AM

55 Replies

Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
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Okay, let's check for power at the trigger wire of the starter when the key is in the crank position. Here is a guide to help us because it sounds like the starter when out:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/starter-not-working-repair

Here is how to change the starter motor out in case you need it. Also try to crank the engine over in neutral. Check out the images (below). Let us know what happens and please upload pictures or videos of the problem so we can see what's going on.
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Wednesday, May 3rd, 2023 AT 4:21 PM
Tiny
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". Because it sounds like the starter when out"?

Do you mean the starter went out?
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Wednesday, May 3rd, 2023 AT 5:16 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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I mean the starter motor is not working, did you check for power at the trigger wire when the ignition is in the crank position?
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Thursday, May 4th, 2023 AT 11:30 AM
Tiny
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Ken, I'll have to find somebody ASAP to check the solenoid trigger wire. Since this requires two people (or one, with extremely long arms).
Thanks for your follow up.
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Thursday, May 4th, 2023 AT 2:26 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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Lol yep, please let me know.
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Friday, May 5th, 2023 AT 9:56 AM
Tiny
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Ken,

While I have a candidate in mind for testing the starter solenoid, he is not available, yet. Meanwhile, I have two questions--
When I turn the ignition key to the start position (with foot on the brake pedal and drive selector in Park) the starter is silent ("no crank" condition). However, the Oil, Temperature and Battery indicators, as well as Check Engine and ABS stay on. Appearing briefly, but disappearing some 4 seconds later, is the indicator for Security.
1. The ABS (anti-lock) system should not be on, at any time, should it?
2. All my Maxifuses and Minifuses look okay, but the starter relays (located above the fuse row. And consisting of small, 1-inch square, grey plastic housings, pose a problem when I try to remove one of them. Each of the grey plastic housings is held in-place by a small, light blue plastic "foot' (see photo under my first post, above). How can I remove each housing for closer inspection and a continuity test?
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Sunday, May 7th, 2023 AT 8:44 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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The Oil, Temperature and Battery indicators, as well as Check Engine and ABS. This is normal. To remove the locking tab push downward and inward at the same time the tab should release, let me know what you find out.
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Monday, May 8th, 2023 AT 5:36 PM
Tiny
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On the solenoid test, with ignition key in crank position, the instructions say I should measure the voltage from the S-connector wire through my VOM to the battery negative terminal. The same instructions say I should pierce/probe the S connector wire with my VOM lead (or sharp pin connected to that lead). Why can't I simply connect to the S terminal, directly, with the VOM lead?
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Thursday, May 11th, 2023 AT 12:05 AM
Tiny
KEN L
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You can, if that's the way you want to do it, which will work. Let me know if you have power at the trigger wire.
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Thursday, May 11th, 2023 AT 9:50 AM
Tiny
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Ken,

As promised, here are the results of the solenoid trigger wire test.

1. There is no power at the trigger wire. Connecting the battery negative terminal to the solenoid S terminal, and my assistant switching the ignition key to start position, my VOM showed zero volts. We did this several times, checking connections to be sure.
2. With the ignition key removed and connecting the solenoid positive terminal to the battery positive terminal, the starter cranked. So, the starter appears to be okay, for now.
3. Now, attention turns to the relays. This afternoon, I also bought two starter relays, one with four blades and the other with five. Since I already have removed one of the series of relay cubes below the Maxifuse row, I know these relay cubes are the four-blade type, but the starter relay may have five blades.

After researching, it appears the relay cube is not below the Maxifuses, but located inside the car, facing the instrument panel. Suggestions?
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Friday, May 12th, 2023 AT 4:24 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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Sure, here is the location of the starter relay. Check out the images (below). Please let us know what happens.
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Saturday, May 13th, 2023 AT 10:17 AM
Tiny
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Ken,

Thank you for the starter relay location illustrations.

However, despite repeated efforts to peer deeper behind the instrument panel/cover, I could not locate the relay. Of course, I am familiar with removing the lower dash panel which contains the Mini fuse panel and the data terminal, so this area is somewhat familiar.

With that large dash panel hanging (supported) near the floorboards, I used a flashlight to search behind and higher, for any switch matching the illustration you sent. From my own research, the relay location is described as to the left of the steering column support, and above.

The actual location would be easier to find if I had a photo of that area, showing the relay location in relation to the fuse panel and/or steering column support. I am searching now for such a photo.
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Saturday, May 13th, 2023 AT 6:18 PM
Tiny
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Here are two photos taken of the under-dash area, with a caption on each photo to help orient your view. The only verbal instructions I could find referred to a location (1) to the left of the steering column support, (2) above the fuse panel, and (3) near the windshield cowl base. (That may mean more to you than it does to me.)
The only location I could not examine very easily is another wire junction with a thick white nylon connector, and I am not sure how to check behind the connector.
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Monday, May 15th, 2023 AT 1:29 AM
Tiny
KEN L
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The relay is located at the steering column support so you will need to look up under the dashboard further. I would use a flashlight. Please let us know what you find.
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Monday, May 15th, 2023 AT 10:12 AM
Tiny
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No results, so far. I moved the driver's seat backward to enable me to lie on my back (awkwardly) and shine the large, hand-held lantern around the interior, well above the steering column. Found plenty of connectors, but none had dimensions of the four- or five-bladed starter relay the auto parts store provided. The one cover I did not look behind protects the gas pedal linkage, but I used my fingers to detect anything behind the gas pedal linkage cover. Do you have any idea which side of the steering column to search?
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Tuesday, May 16th, 2023 AT 8:22 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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They show the relay above the main electrical connector at the right side of the column, can you upload more images?
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Wednesday, May 17th, 2023 AT 9:57 AM
Tiny
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We have rain through tomorrow, but I'll do what I can with more images of the area.

While checking beneath/behind the dashboard, I also tested the VATS bypass circuit I had to make the last time the car stopped. On that non-crank event, an instrument panel Security Warning flashed continuously, despite my using the original ignition key.

The home-made bypass is a single resistor (5W, 2000 Ohms), soldered into place across the two orange wires leading to the BCM. The resistor accepted the value it found when I turned the ignition key, and I have driven the car ever since without a problem.

Until now. So, in checking the resistor to make sure it had not disconnected or become damaged, I found the resistor intact, with completely normal appearance, but with a value of only 1331-1334 Ohms, instead of its nominal 2,000 Ohms. That surprised me, since a resistor can take high temperature (155C) and should fail upward-- showing a higher Ohm value, not a lower value.

So, today, I ordered a new resistor of the same specifications as the OEM ignition key's Hall Effect resistor-- 1861 Ohm. Since the VATS system did not reject even a 2000 Ohm resistor in the original bypass, perhaps replacing the wandering resistor with the 1800 Ohm resistor might do some good. At least, we'll know what the problem is not.

Since we are still focused on the starter enable relay, that is where I plan to spend whatever time I have until the resistor arrives. I'll follow your verbal guidance as best I can and see what I can discover-- with photo(s), if possible.

Here is a link to the VATS non-crank adventure:
https://www.2carpros.com/questions/flashing-security-warning-on-dash-no-crank-no-click
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Wednesday, May 17th, 2023 AT 7:58 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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Thanks for the information and the link. Please let me know when you can get under the dash again.
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Thursday, May 18th, 2023 AT 12:16 PM
Tiny
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Ideally, my camera lens should be an ultra-wide-angle type. My current phone camera lens is not wide enough (it is only face-oriented, for selfies, presumably), and orienting details are lost when I move farther inside the dash.

Nonetheless, I've attached a few photos, so let me know what you find.

* My home-made circuit jumper is found in two photos and is outlined in a red rectangle.
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Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023 AT 12:17 AM
Tiny
KEN L
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Thanks for the photos, yep, that looks like a security system bypass. Is the security light flashing? Here is the starter wiring diagrams so you can see how the system works. I don't see the starter relay in those photos. It is on the bracket that holds the main electrical connector. Check out the images (below). Please let us know what happens.
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Thursday, May 25th, 2023 AT 9:30 AM

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