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Tiny
CROOT21
  • MEMBER
  • 1974 JEEP CJ5
  • 4.2L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 99,999 MILES
Hi, I have a problem similar to some others regarding a no start condition, but not seeing anything that fits my exact situation. I recently bought and have been working on the vehicle listed above. It ran fair, other than overheating and blowing white smoke after a couple of miles. I have replaced the starter, starter solenoid, head gasket, valve cover gasket, intake and exhaust gaskets. In the process I had to remove the plugs and HEI distributor the PO had installed to get the head off. Put distributor back in with some adjusting to get it to seat back down on the block (maybe a problem there?). Marked all plug wires to make sure they line up with the right plug. Since that time, I cannot get it to start. Tried to get to 5-7 BTDC, adjust the dist cap to point at the first plug, but will not really turn enough to get right there. Feels like I am going to snap off the distributor rotor if I try to force it more. It cranked until I burned the ignition coil up. Replaced that coil and it cranks well, but still no start. I tried to adjust the crankshaft to what I thought was 5-7 BTDC and tried to adjust the dist/rotor again. I have blasted the carburetor with carburetor cleaner, then later added starting fluid and a little fuel. Cranked several more times, then bang! (More like internal explosion, but not the normal, controlled kind.). Sad, but funny. Friend had head near the front of the the vehicle at the time (well, funny to me). Not sure what if any damage may have been done and really could use your assistance to get Lazlo running again. Thanks in advance for any assistance with this project! Chris in central FL.
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Wednesday, September 20th, 2017 AT 6:40 PM

19 Replies

Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
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Hey there again!

Key on, positive side of the coil, what is your voltage?

(I deal with stock stuff mainly, I have pictures to help)(I am just going to have to explain stuff better with that distributor!)

Has that distributor been removed?

Still using the one in the picture?

If it was removed, has it run at all since it was re-installed? (think you already answered that!)

This will aid you a bunch!

Read it slow take it in.

I want you to see "my answer" (way down the thread) just below:

Sunday, February 3, 2013 AT 6:31 AM (the next one below this day/ time- found at the bottom of each reply) in this link.

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/1984-jeep-cj7-84-258-i6-weber-32-36-carb-tfi-igniton-upgrade-spark-been

"Chad and David" are mentioned in the reply I want you to see!

Keep on replying!

The Medic

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Wednesday, September 20th, 2017 AT 7:24 PM
Tiny
CROOT21
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Thanks Medic! I will check that section you refer to (February third) and the voltage this evening and get back with you. I did have to remove the HEI distributor to get the head off for the new head gasket, so to your point, I think that might be a big part of it. Trouble is I can't seem to move the rotor to get it to the first plug. I can hand turn the crankshaft to get it to TDC. Should it be at 0 TDC or should it be somewhere else with the HEI distributor? Should I adjust the plug gap back to where it originally was or leave it at the.043 that was recommended by others using HEI on a 258? Thanks again!
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Thursday, September 21st, 2017 AT 6:56 AM
Tiny
CROOT21
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Also, forgot to add that I have not been able to get the engine to run since the distributor was taken out and put back in.
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Thursday, September 21st, 2017 AT 6:59 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Read my last link, soak it up, see what Chad and David say. Might watch 'them several times to fully soak it in.

I will be waiting for you!

The Medic
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Thursday, September 21st, 2017 AT 3:16 PM
Tiny
CROOT21
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Hi Medic,

Read your thread from Feb. 3 and soaked that in. Very helpful information. I also watched the videos from David and Chad a couple of times. Great info as well. Set up the crankshaft to TDC (2nd mark at 0) and then sorted the distributor. Somehow got the rotor to line up with the 1st plug by fiddling with the oil pump screwdriver slot. All looked good at that point. Crossed my fingers and then cranked it. It sounded like it was stumbling and wanted to turn over, but never did. Also, sounded like a hiss or pressure being released from somewhere up front after several cranks. Kept trying, but no luck. A little shot in the ass at this point and called it a day. Any thoughts on what to do next?

Also, still a little concerned about the "bang" or explosion sound I heard and mentioned in my original post. Did that possibly do something tragic to the valves or pistons when that originally happened?

By the way, great looking Jeeps you've got there.

Thanks again for your help!

Chris
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Sunday, September 24th, 2017 AT 2:18 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
The 258 is a tough engine, Most of the time with backfires/ coughing/ sneezing/ and spitting the only things I see that may occur are vacuum lines/ vacuum caps sometimes get blown off of their nipple/ connection.

Measure/ mark the distributor's relation with the engine. So it can be put back if it were moved.

Let's try loosening the distributor hold down clamp enough where the distributor will move (but still be sorta tight).

Have you buddy crank it,

You move the distributor slightly either way (maybe in inch [per say] ) while it's cranking. Does it start? Will it run well enough to time it with a light?

NO GO?

Before we can attack another problem we have to be PERFECT where we are at now!

Might be a review, but we have to be certain TDC is TDC!

Unscrew #1 plug, leave it in, hanging on 2 threads or so.

INSURE THE KEY IS OFF! Out of gear.

Slowly rotate the engine clockwise (viewed from the front) with a wrench or ratchet. This could take up to two crankshaft revolutions (being a 4 stroke engine)

When you hear a HISS from #1 plug loose in it's hole (not other low hissing from the pistons), stop for a second! We are now starting on the compression stroke of #1

Look at the timing mark on the harmonic balancer- look at "0" on your timing cover.

You will continue around (which is gonna be less than 1/2 a stroke-maybe even way less!) Until the timing mark is on "0"

The engine is at TDC!

Now look to see if your rotor button is indeed facing the #1 tower (where #1 wire is).

If all is like this, we are in good shape with TDC.

I took one of your pics and tried to see if you had the wire sequence correct.

It's hard to see some of 'em (your modified pic is below)

Sequence should be 1-5-3-6-2-4 clockwise on the cap (button pointing at #1)

Sorry!

Not saying you are dumb or nuthin'!

Just that so many times you spend forever with a Jeep down, running thru a million possibilities only to find out it was something in the beginning taken for granted/ 'specially when you are tired and not checking behind yourself.

Just wanna be absolutely sure at this point!

Nuthin' will work right if this ain't right!

Try what I suggested, recheck your work!

We will move on after you verify TDC is dead on!

Your turn,

The Medic
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Sunday, September 24th, 2017 AT 6:59 PM
Tiny
CROOT21
  • MEMBER
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Thanks Medic. Will try to adjust the distributor as you mention above and see what happens. If nothing, then will re-set crankshaft TDC and re-verify the rotor is at #1 and then try again as well. I also saw your notes on the plug wiring photo, no worries, you won't offend me. I re-verified those yesterday as well. Just glad to have your help.
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Monday, September 25th, 2017 AT 1:00 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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Let's hear some good news!

The Medic
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Monday, September 25th, 2017 AT 6:35 PM
Tiny
CROOT21
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Haven't had a chance to work on it the past few days. Working long hours. Will be out of town until next week. Hope to hop back in there and praying to hear that thing start. Will keep you in the loop on anything that happens.
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Tuesday, September 26th, 2017 AT 5:02 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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I hate to see one sit idle that long!

I'm counting on you!

I'll be here.

Don't let it go as long as these fellers did below.

The Medic
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Tuesday, September 26th, 2017 AT 6:01 PM
Tiny
CROOT21
  • MEMBER
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Finally had some time this past weekend to get back in there. I had reset the crankshaft to 0 TDC, then messed with the distributor to get back so rotor pointing at #1, but still no go. I went back again and reset to 0 TDC, but then checked the rotor button, which was now pointing at #5 plug. I changed all the wires around on the distributor cap so where the rotor button was pointing to (#5) became my new #1 and then followed the sequence around the cap. Fired right up! Advanced and retarded the timing afterward. Advanced all the way up, til it wouldn't advance anymore. It idled well, but now misfiring and stumbling under load. Maybe reset timing to 5-7 BTDC with the HEI? Also, reset plug gap possibly? Other considerations? Thanks for helping me get me up and running!
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Monday, October 16th, 2017 AT 9:00 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Glad it's running!

Manual tranny 258 (not a 232)

1 barrel 6 degrees @ 850 RPM below 4000 ft sea level

2 barrel 6 degrees @ 650 RPM below 4000 ft sea level

PLUGS, I (and the book) SUGGEST CHAMPION Part #RN14YC GAP .035, them new fangled hypodermic-looking plugs don't impress me!

You have to use some tuning equipment/ "By Ear" don't cut it! Sometimes a pawn shop will have just what you need cheap!

In this link- disregard the "304 parts", just go by the 258 stuff I provided this feller

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/jeep-cj7-1985-jeep-cj7-stalls-when-hot

Make sure there ain't no vacuum leaks!

Just starting my Willys make-over, been 20+ since he was last painted, interior paint is next/ then paint the body/ new insignia last! Gonna take at least a gallon and a half.

Your turn,

The Medic

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Monday, October 16th, 2017 AT 7:34 PM
Tiny
CROOT21
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
Hi Medic. Finally got myself a timing gun and got everything set up according to your specs. Found a few vacuum leaks along the way and patched everything up. Lazlo’s running like a champ with the exception of a few leaks (steering box and transmission). No complaints here as they’ll get fixed in due time. Can’t thank you enough for all of your help and would like to buy you a few beers if you’re ever in Central FL. Thanks again and take care! Chris
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Friday, December 22nd, 2017 AT 8:46 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Been out to eat with the wifey and grandson at some new seafood/ Oriental kinda place along with some shopping. I am wore slap out. I fell in sleep in front of the large scale desktop.

It's now a 1/4 till 2 in the morning and I was awakened to a video game on wide open (I reckon the grandson is near deaf and can't hear the crap!) I see that he'd never be be awakened by a "Clatter" up on the rooftop here in a couple of days.

After figuring out that I was not having Army Ranger Flashbacks I looked up and saw that I had mail.

Nuthin' like a Southern CJ to make my day (next morning), before I go hit the (real) sack and probably sleep nearly till noon.

I'm SOOOOO glad that you have made major progress and maybe my contributions made some kinda little impact in the process.

I really get a warm fuzzy when someone returns (especially after a long period) with a really Positive Jeep Love Story Happy Ending (or rather a new beginning!)

Nice Jeep you have there, we do not limit how many pics you can post!

You know, Georgia is the only thing between our homes, and I'm always only a few keyboard clicks away if I can help you with more Jeep Stuff.

Merry Christmas!

So far I have gotten fully painted with "Willy", he's almost cured out enough so I can finish up with his WWII insignia (much better than before!)

PICs, (if all 10 make it thru)

1-3) gonna start you out with 3 I found on the net

4-7) My pertty new paint job.

7-10) These were made a several years back (I'll be doing new "Glamour Shots" when I get Willy Done) They are still sorta timeless CJ Christmas shots that I post every Christmas. I still use the crossed candy canes and wreath on the grills of both each Christmas season.

The Medic
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Friday, December 22nd, 2017 AT 11:34 PM
Tiny
CROOT21
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
Medic,
Merry Christmas to you too, my friend.
Love that Renegade, but damn that Willy’s is sweet! Nice job on the paint. Haven’t decided what to paint Lazlo next. That Willy’s is what Jeepers really love to see. Those touched like the shovel and dash flashlight are cool as hell.
All the best to you and your family this Christmas season. Thanks again for all your help and hope to be in touch over the New Year.
On that note, any thoughts on a leaky transmission? At my outlaws this weekend, bit photos to follow.
God bless and all the best,
Chris
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Sunday, December 24th, 2017 AT 5:01 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
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What tranny you got?

Get a bunch of new Jeep stuff for Christmas!

The Medic
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Monday, December 25th, 2017 AT 11:04 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
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Sorta lost you there for a bit!

How's everything still a goin'?

What's happening with the tranny?

The Medic
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Sunday, February 4th, 2018 AT 11:34 AM
Tiny
CROOT21
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
Hi Medic. Great to hear from you! Hope all is well. Thought I had a leaking T14, but used some Lucas Trans fix and it seems to be doing pretty well. Still a pretty good grinding sound when going from 2nd to third. Not exactly sure what might be and how hard of a fix that might be.

On the other hand, having a hell of a time with a leaking valve cover. Gone through two FelPro cork gaskets already. Used red (high temp) Permatex RTV on the first one (both sides), then black (oil resistant) RTV on the 2nd one (both sides of the gasket again) and it leaks worse than the first go round. Saw some “Right Stuff” gasket maker (w no cork gasket) mentioned on a forum and thought that might be my next step. Will know by this weekend when I take it apart again and try that method.

How’s everything going with that Willy’s and Renegade?
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Monday, February 5th, 2018 AT 1:54 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Let's back up on the valve cover gasket!

What's probably happening is that when you RTV both sides it is so slick that it sucks up under the cover when you tighten the bolts.

Walmart

Hardware section

Hid on bottom shelf at our store

Contact Cement

Clean all of the crap off of your valve cover.

Clean the head's surface too.

Coat the valve cover surface with Contact Cement

Insure your gasket is oriented right

Coat the top side of the gasket with contact cement

Let both dry separately for 15-20 minutes.

Stick 'em together.

Now the gasket is sealed to the cover, it should not move!

Now a light coat of RTV on the bottom of the gasket. Smear it out with your finger, it should only be a light film.

Install the valve cover, barely-barely-barely snug the bolts, the cover should touch all the way around.

Let it dry an hour or so.

Snug the bolts a bit more, like tight using your thumb and two fingers on top of a nut driver. Over-tightening is not a good thing.

Pic below

Your turn,

The Medic
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Monday, February 5th, 2018 AT 5:28 PM

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