Engine Performance problem
1985 Jeep CJ7 6 cyl Four Wheel Drive Manual 85K miles
I recently pulled my Jeep out of storage of nine years. (Ran fine when it was stored.) Changed fluids, new battery, new fuel filter, new gas; started right up. First problem encountered was an overheating issue. Deposits did exist in the radiator, flushed twice with cleaner and appears to run in the normal temp. Range now. Current problem is, when driving, after about 20 minutes (from a cold start), engine will stall and die. After 1 or 2 minutes, I can re-start engine and run about 5+ minutes, stall and die. During the stalling period it gives an appearance of being starved for gas right before it dies. I can pump the gas peddle and almost keep it running.
I know little about the smog and air system/sensors (but know it is extensive). It runs great when cold and takes about 10 minutes to start warm up. It will idle when hot, but under way/higher rpm is when it stalls. Not sure if it could be a weak fuel pump, smog or sensor related, or still an overheating issue. Any help is greatly appreciated.
I will try to help you all the way thru this issue, See my profile.
If SMOG is not a real issue in your area, you may want to ELIMINATE those PESKY LINES (dry rotting crap, to be a potential vacuum leak) Also OLD non-working switches and components, why replace the lines, if the other componects may not work, either! (most are just there for the 1st, 5 minute warm-up anyway!)
You ONLY NEED 2 Vacuum lines to make your JEEP RUN GREAT, after a 5 minute (2 Mile) warm-up. I prefer a Manual Choke, I WANT TO BE IN COMMAND!....Less moving parts to go wrong, too!
SEE IN CJ 7 Forum below yours, "1985 CJ 7 IDLE".
You will see the 2 lines you need, and I want have to hunt and peck so much. (I have written many of the CJ 5/ 7 ANSWERS)
I really don't know your deal COMPLETELY, without more info,
Your radiator should be PROFESSIONALLY taken apart, rodded and cleaned....after this long, a new THERMOSTAT is in order.
May have other stuff, to tell about overheating
Carb is maybe, dryed out inside,I do not recommend rebuilding old stepper (with wires into rear) but better stillNew Rebuilt BBD ( I may can help you with your "BEST BUY, BEST TYPE BBD" to replace the old Stepper type carb, your old carb never turned out to be the perfect Jeep Carb)
Right now, maybe some help, Run some MARVEL MYSTERY OIL in your gas and maybe injector/ carb cleaner, too.
I may be able to help you adjust, what you have, if not too far gone.
Read post below yours/ above yours about clutch, you will see the extent I Can and Will, help you.
Do you have a Manual? Which one?
Do you understand any mechanics? Extent? (Pals?)
Dwell/ handheld tach meter?
Some understanding and guages/ meters are necessary to PROPERLY TUNE your Baby!
ASK ME QUESTIONS, I KNOW CJs...Will try to keep cost down, do stuff correctly!
You must keep records and tell me all happening on your end.
1946 Willys, "WILLY" MY #2 BABY
April, 26, 2010 AT 4:21 PM
Ok, here's where I stand.
I replaced the radiator and thermostat with new. Runs a little cooler by the gage, but I still have the stall problem.
Treated the gas to help clean the fuel system/carb. Not opposed to purchasing a new/different carb. Would want it to be better than what I have.
Not in a smog prone/restricted area, so I do believe it would be better to remove and cap what sensors and hoses which could be possibly omitted.
I do have a Chilton manual, but in my opinion it could use more pics and diagrams than just reading.
I do have limited mechanical knowledge. I do most all minor maintenance and repair work. Not afraid to get dirty!
Will add a few pics in hopes they may help in the direction I need to take. You will see there are many hosed and lines at the rear of the engine. I may need clear direction before removing any of them.
Let me know what you think.
April, 26, 2010 AT 9:34 PM
" PERTTY JEEP" ---Whats his name?----Sent you a PM
1) Kinda dark---can eliminate some vacuum stuff on top of " Aftermarket" Aluminum Valve Cover?
2) " T" w/ white cap is a " add on" Backflush port, to Back-flush cooling system---Walmart or parts store item (need the other components, in the kit, to use it!
3) EGR is the bell thingee in pic, yours looks decent (without testing) Probably keep it, it is not " necessary" ----If you were running hedders, there would be NO WAY to hook it to hedder, therefore it is really not necessary to have.
4) Motorcraft distributor and fuel pump----you say its been sitting a while, pump diaphram may be stiff/dry etc.----This pump costs about $20--It has failed me several times in past. (Please have one extra, in Jeep, minimum tooling to change it!)
I go overboard (do not like, being helpless), in my 20mm ammo box, now a console w/ professional Pad on topI keep a new fuel pump, and 2 Salvage yard specials ($5 for both!) A used coil, and a used Ford Ignition module (blue code)--I (tested) ran both on my rig for a week, to be sure, I could trust them! All 3 have aided another Unprepared Jeep Guy, at one time or another!
5) Can't really say enough about it!
April, 27, 2010 AT 1:22 PM
Nice looking jeep! Back when a jeep was a jeep. I think Turddog has you covered pretty good though if I was you id check the fuel filter as well. A number of times on different vehicles I have had fuel filters plug up partially and cause me enough misery that I now have a tendency to overdo it as a possible solution. BUT it cant hurt anything.
That being said if you have a carb it sounds like the old vapor lock.
April, 27, 2010 AT 2:05 PM
OK Heres the deal,
I wrote, most all of this up for about 2 hours last night, Hit Submit, LOG IN popped up, I LOST IT ALL
I will keep submitting, and Editting this post, just so I do not, lose it all again.......THIS POST WILL GROW, for a while, probably not alert you, as I add to it, over and over........KEEP A CHECK, ON IT! ! !
Ron and his '83, just here....Dirty!...Stuff needs looms and tiedowns on wires!....But I was able to get GOOD PICS.....Labels I put on, are not all that great----some (I went too fast, labeling) I have to explain some, better....so don't jump ahead of the game!
We are going to keep the EGR system (replace any crappy lines, to it!)
PCV Vacuum---Rons location is where yours is, or is gonna be!
Distributor will now be hooked to MANIFOLD VAC---Not ported (cap off that ported T1T, originally hooked to.)
IF you still have an AUTOMATIC CHOKE---Dashpot and its vac line will remain
I will EXPLAIN each of these with a Separate, Dedicated Pic ! ! !
Any time you say (type) a wordy dird, on here, CYBER-CENSOR throws out a substitute, Sometimes the substitute will have you wondering (for hours), what does this sentence mean?.....$hit comes back----exaust!----don't remember othersT1T and N1PPLE are ones they censor out, you know, those dual female appendages, we, so adore!......This is the reason, I have to misspell Innocent stuff, so C-C does't have you scratching your head!
I want you, for peace of mind sake, put some masking tape (consecutively numbered), on each line, we remove....Shoot a pic, with the number visable, to its CARB or INTAKE MANIFOLD LOCATION!
After we're done, and you are happy, and most importantly, MR. JEEP is HAPPY, components and lines, can be permanently removed.
Do you need Mr. Jeep every day?....have extra transportation?
STOP ME AT ANY TIME YOU'RE LOST ! ! !
EGR...(4 o'clock) Hook up, like this, with new, tight fitting hose-use fuel line, better quality than a rubber vac hose. (note CTO switch in the line) Cut old rubber off of plastic T1Ts w/ a sharp knife (Old plastic stuff breaks if you snatch on it)
These (this) Is/ Are VENTS FOR THE CARB AND BOWL (no vac to this) (one outlet, on Rons----went to canister, Now open air---Ok, but can be improved upon.
Don't need canister! will eliminate it too, later on!, THIS SET-UP NEEDS TO BREATH, DO NOT CAP THIS OFF, OR FUEL WILL BOIL EVERYWHERE, WHEN YOU SHUT HIM OFF (heat expansion)--FIRE HAZARD...Vapor lock/vacuum lock
Where I am pointing--I added a short peice of hose and I took a Cheap, 2 T1T, Clear fuel filter (to let Carb breathe), and rigged it on mine, (before I got the 4 barrel)---kept trash and DIRT DAUBERS OUT of my original type BBD----Ron will do that to his (this one) SOON!
THIS IS GOING TO COME TO YOU IN CLOCK POSITIONS (Let me know if your T1Ts are different locations, or more than I have here)
OK, with "12" we are going to cap it (previously ported vac for distributor)
In passenger side pic (below) Ron's dist is still hooked here, After photo session, we moved it to 5 o'clock...Readjested his timing, mixture and idle speed (about 25 minutes), I talked him through all---Made him do itSooo Smmoootthh NOW!
"2" Is Fat 3/8 PCV Hose (KEEPER--A HAVE TO HAVE!)---if pertty-leave it, If bad, BUY 2-3 feet 3/8 Fuel line, and replace it. (fuel line, costs cents more, but is better line than vac line)
"3" is under the stepper (thingee, the wires plug in) this is manifold vacuum, this feeds the bell dealee, up and left from stepper (has "Dashpot" taped on it in pic) (KEEPER NOW--COULD CAP)---replace with 3/16 or 1/4 fuel line if nastyfied.
"5" (red cap) NEW DISTRIBUTOR T1T, (manifold vac.) FROM DIST. TO "5 O'clock" (red cap location) Install about 3 feet long, 1/4 fuel line.(NEW, KEEPER--A HAVE TO HAVE!)
"6" this one is manifold vac----can't see in this pic, (low, red cap in 1st pic [up top], top of this answer block)---it is below the carb, on a long-looking nut ON THE MANIFOLDCAP IT
"7" is our EGR PORT (KEEPER NOW---COULD CAP)----From this port to a vac. switch on the block, out of switch to EGR----BIG BELL 6 O'clock on the intake (under cardboard) manifold......replace bad hoses, on this with 1/4 fuel line (you sent a pic of it)
VIEW WITHOUT CARDBOARD--DRIVER SIDE--RONs Wires Etc. Are slowly getting looms and organization! (please excuse, he is a procrastinator!)
7 feet 1/4 fuel line (plenty to do all of above stuff)
3 feet 3/8 fuel line (PCV)
1-Kit Vinyl vacuum caps (if available) 3/16, 1/4, and 5/16 caps (or rubber ones) Make sure they fit real snug!
short fuel line with little bolts plugging them, will do in a pinch, instead of caps!
I count 2 "Vacuums" needing caps----12 o'clock and 6 o'clock
Only what we have talked about, need to be hooked up----no old surprizes need to be "T"eed into our setup.
the non working old stuff (we just eliminated) can be capped or plugged, they are completely dead, dangling lines....Just to keep dirt out
Is your air pump, and cooling lines fromStill there or removed?
Is your fuel filter system Still--EXACTLY LIKE THIS? 3 T1T (1 in, 1 out to carb, 1 little one on edge[out, return to tank] ) Disreguard extra stuff on mine (Bottom)
Want Pic of your Exaust manifold, well lit, close, entire manifold, as viewed from driver fender (no breather)......and pic of your catylitic converter, if air pump some how feed into it.
TUNING TOOLS YOU NEED
You need some tuning stuff, for next procedure to come. "Harbor Freight" has a small case, with Vacuum Gauge, Dwell/Tach meter, Timing Light, a Compression Gauge, and a Remote Starter---been a while$25-$35 ? A Pal of mine, bought one about 6 months ago, kinda nice---compact, great for novice, all in one place, beginner set!----I might get me one for a back-up or roadside fix!
1---- 4-6 1nch flat screwdriver 3/16--5/16 tip
small piece of white chalk
1/2 open-box wrench
I want you to tighten/check tightness of all intake /exaust manifold bolts (see your manual, ask if scared!)
Tighten 4 carb nuts (carb to intake)
Tighten all screws that hold the carb body together
EDIT IN---BORROWED THIS FROM CATHCART FOR THIS PIC!
Initiate, last nights, PM anytime tonight! I will be awake till 24:00 EST (Now will wait on you till 01:00, then I'm hitting sack!)
STILL DON'T KNOW HIS NAME! (I know you didn't name "HIM" a sissy "chevy type owner, weak, girly name.) C'MON, We're talking about a Very MANLY, TOUGH, "single handedly WON WWII RIG"(Maybe you know Women with these attributes!)
April, 27, 2010 AT 4:28 PM
Todays Jeep work 4/2710
First: Turddog, sorry we did not get hooked from you PM. Got busy and Jeep was not close by to work on. Will PM you this evening.
Second: Even though its was a cool day (mid 50's) I drove Jeep for 45 minutes after adding the Marvel Oil to gas tank. Thought I would give it a chance on the fuel system/carb. Jeep NEVER stalled once. ---Appears I may need to drive a longer period of time?
To Consaka's post, the stalling I have does seem to me like a vapor lock, or fuel vapor somewhere. When I experience a stall, it only takes 1 minute, 2 at most to get restarted and get underway.
Third: As for changing vac lines, I need to get a supply of new lines (All current lines are original).
This evening, I am going to try to get more familiar with the lines and their respective ports. Label what I can identify and what I can't. Will take pics.
Bear with on replacing some of these lines, I just want to be sure I follow your instruction and not cut or pull the wrong line.
Thanks for the support.
April, 27, 2010 AT 5:59 PM
Bear with me, Still more to come up top + will give you a SHORT-INEXPENSIVE MATERIAL LIST!
April, 27, 2010 AT 6:17 PM
Question: Aside from taking on the vacuum lines/smog stuff, if vapor locking is occurring, is this just a matter of changing carbs? Where does one look for the cause of this? Or is it related to vacuume?
Forum rules dictate no pm's until ten post. If we need to converse, tell me to call.
April, 27, 2010 AT 9:19 PM
LAND LINE COMMO TIME !NOW!
NO WORKY----JUST CONSULTY
SEE POST DOWN FORUM LIST....."1984 JEEP CJ 7 Turning the jeep on" (MAR 4, 2010) 2 pages
This feller was smart with PM......You already have 4
Before you get all Carb Happy, lets see if yours, just needs ADJUSTING!
The "No fuel, vapor lock deal", is really (not always) ---Sorta like grasping for straws, when YOUR WANNA BE MENTOR didn't stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night.
I have not Ever seen this (VL) in a Jeep CJ (YET!)..........A fuel line, getting too hot, maybe really close to manifold, etc.
It Vaporizes the fuel, at that spot in the line and it SUPPOSEDLY will not let the pump, etc. Push/Draw fuel to carb.(on CJ, FUEL IS ALWAYS MOVING FAST THRU THE LINES [How can it get HOT?], except MAYBE? from, filter to carb [VERY SHORT DISTANCE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO ENCIRCLE THE EXAUST TO DO THAT], THAT IS....If you still have 3 T1T Filter---Return to tank, Original system!)
Hog-Wash!, keep up with my SOUND/ PROVENCOUNTRY-BOY, JEEP EXPLANATIONS)----I am not a "Professional Mechanic" or a "Physicist" (sp) Nor a great spellerI just can't picture Vapor Deal, if you adhere to Explanations do the "work" correctly!
REAL JEEP FUEL PROBLEMS, I KNOW (already not discussed) for sure are:
A) None in tank
B) Bad fuel pump
C) Holes in lines---before pump...sucking air---After...squirting or dripping
D) Tank screen stopped up
E) CRIMPED HOSE OR STEEL LINE---pulling with chain, got hooked somehow on fuel line! (idiot factor!)----4x4ing rocks etc.----accidental under hood, moving stuff, mashed w/ wrench etc
F) Flat eccentric (sp), on engine cam for pump/pump arm broke.
G) Stuff hooked up wrong---Ex.---new fuel tank swapped feed and return lines (no fuel, can be drawn, because the vent is at the top of the tank, and the "Draw or Pick-up" goes to the bottom)
H) Gas Cap 100% seal (no vent/ vents plugged/ somebody messed with "liquid and rollover check valves" [near fuel tank]) Fuel will be "Suction locked"..(sucking a vacuum in tank)Bright green plastic hose is the "Vent for Tank" attached to canister, If it were cut off/capped off/ Melted or Crimped by "Vapor Lock Guy" (WRONG!) [we would get little or no fuel from the tank]
When I extended my tank vent, up high, I used a 2 T1T clear filter on it (just to breathe and keep foreign stuff out), when I eliminated the canister.
The "Nelsomatic" Fuel Filter Breather For Tank Vent Line (NFFBFTVL!), is barely seen EXTREME RIGHT on firewall, near top of cowl, Just right of the master cylinder.
No fuel should come out of this Vent, in a "rollover situation" BECAUSE the liquid and rollover checks near the tank SHOULD STOP IT!
I) 3 T1T FUEL FILTER not in use (Vapor Lock Idiot guy, took it off, replaced it with 2 T1T in/out FILTER...[DUMB] NOW THERE IS NO RETURN BACK TO THE TANK), Extra Fuel/Pressure cannot return to tank, PRESSURE over-rides Carb float, CARB gets TOO MUCH FUEL---sometimes while driving, you sorta use up the extra fuel--AT IDLE, you flood and die out!
Could probably remember more, "Miles to go, before I sleep"....going to bed now!
May, 1, 2010 AT 12:10 PM
Ok. Making progress.
Went ahead and changed the fuel pump (just in case). Glad I did. The hose leading up to the pump was old, drying out and cracking. The pump bolts were just snug also. All corrected.
This pic shows there is not/or ever was a air pump.
I found the O2 sensor. The wire was dangling (not attached. The sensor is very tight in the exhaust. Not sure if I need to try to re-attach wire or just leave. Need advise here.
1) Old hose from Distributor (now just unpluged and laying)
2) This port had hose from Air Breather attached. (now capped)
3) This port was already capped. I capped with new cap.
4) Bolt post has new Distributor line attached. (Distributor only)
5) Old hose. Capped this port.
Dash pot and PVC line were left alone and intact. New lines here also.
I can take better pics if I need to be more specific on any point. Getting better at this stuff.
I do have a timing light, dwell and tach meter. Although, I've not used a dwell/tach meter in quite some time.
Will be putting air breather back on and will be ready to start to see results thus far.