Mechanics

HARD START AFTER REPLACING FUEL INJECTORS

1999 Toyota Camry

Engine Performance problem
1999 Toyota Camry 6 cyl Front Wheel Drive Manual 141000 miles

I recently replaced the fuel injectors on my V-6 Solara due to intermittent running/missing problems. The dealer had looked at the car a few times, but finally concluded that injector replacement was the next step, at a cost of $1500. The problem was that the dealer could not guarantee that this repair woud solve the intermittent running/miss problem. I was not willing to spend $1500 without some sort of guarantee. I decided to tackle injector replacement myself, and purchased remanufactured injectors, and the intake gaskets.
I took many reference pictures before beginning to ensure all hoses and connections were reassembled properly. I had to remove the intake air plenum to replace the rear injectors, but this went smoothly.
The biggest problems were trying to remove the filter, and removing the rear plenum support bracket hardware. I now know why the dealer never seemed eager to replace the engine compartment fuel filter, the fuel line fitting was very tight and had rusted in place.
The engine started and seemed to run great. The dealer's diagnosis seems to be correct, the intermittent missing problem has not reoccurred. There has been no further check engine light warnings either. Now, there is only one problem that was not occurring before fuel injector replacement: excessive cranking before the engine starts, hot or cold. I have looked over the engine a few times and compared my pre-repair pictures, I didn't see any obvious mistakes. The check engine light has not come on, so I don't think I left any sensors/actuators unplugged.
My better half wants me to return the car to the dealer, so they can figure out what " I did wrong". I am hesistant only because I feel the dealer probably does not want to get involved with a home mechanic repair. So, please let me know where to begin. Will I need special scanners/testers to check the systems, or are there things I can look at with basic tools.
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Dkellogg56
September 25, 2008.




I would check the fuel pressure to rule out a weak pump then check the cold start injector and coolant temperature sensor.

Rasmataz
Sep 25, 2008.
I agree, but I would add check the fuel pressure regulator.
http://www.2carpros.com/car_repair_video/test_fuel_injection_pressure.htm
Go here and checkout our video.

Merlin2021
Oct 9, 2008.
I appreciate the advice guys, but you aren't giving me much to go on.
I don't think this model has a " cold start injector", perhaps I'm wrong.
And, there is no dedicated fuel system tap to check fuel pressure. The only connection point seems to be at the fuel filter, which has a crazy plastic pipe/oring connection. I'm guessing you need a specific adapter to check fuel pressure, and isolate the injectors from the regulator to check for leakdown. The car does seem like it is flooded when it starts, so injector leakdown could be the issue.
I finally gave in, and brought the car back to the dealer to let them check the pressure. I will replace the injectors again if they feel the " remanufactured injectors" I installed are leaking down. The car seems to run/idle fine once started, and there is no check engine warning, which is why I suspected a IAC problem. But anything is possible. Please let me know if there is a reasonably priced fuel pressure test adapter kit for this car. I will let you know what the dealer finds.

Tiny
Dkellogg56
Oct 10, 2008.
Well, I would have looked at the regulator, especially if it's a hard start after a soak. The adapter is available at Toyota parts, I dont think it's too expensive, No there is no cold start injector on yours, a gauge is available here at a reasonable price.
http://www.2carpros.com/affiliate/uid/merlin2021_1
BASIC DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURES - V6 & V8 -1999 Toyota Camry LE
Page 1 of 2
Avalon, Camry & Camry Solara
1.Ensure battery is fully charged. Release fuel pressure. See FUEL PRESSURE RELEASE . Disconnect negative battery cable. 2.On Avalon, purchase a No. 1 fuel pipe Part No. (23801-20040) from parts department. On Camry and Camry Solara, purchase a No. 1 fuel pipe Part No. (23801-20041) from parts department. On all models, No. 1 fuel pipe is fuel pipe that attaches to top of fuel filter. Remove fuel pipe connector from end of NEW No. 1 fuel pipe. See Fig. 15 .
Fig. 15: Identifying Fuel Pipe Connector (Avalon, Camry & Camry Solara)
Courtesy of TOYOTA MOTOR SALES, U.S.A., INC.
3.Remove fuel pipe clamp from No. 1 fuel pipe at fuel filter. Perform STEP 1. See Fig. 16 . Ensure area around No. 1 fuel pipe and fuel filter is clean.

CAUTION:Use care when disconnecting No. 1 fuel pipe from fuel filter, as some residual fuel pressure may still exist in the fuel system.
4.Depress both sides of retainer and pull No. 1 fuel pipe with disconnect fitting from fuel filter. Perform STEP 2. See Fig. 16 . 5.Install adapter, hose and fuel pressure gauge from Fuel Pressure Gauge Set (SST 09268-45012) with fuel pipe connector between No. 1 fuel pipe and fuel filter. See Fig. 17 . Ensure hose, No. 1 fuel pipe and fuel pipe connector are properly connected. 6.Install negative battery cable. Remove cover (if equipped) and connect scan tool to data link connector No. 3. See Fig. 1 -Fig. 3 . Turn ignition on. DO NOT start engine. 7.Turn scan tool on. Select ACTIVE TEST MODE on scan tool. Using scan tool manufacturer's instructions, activate fuel pump and note fuel pressure. Fuel pressure should be 44-50 psi (3.1-3.5 kg/cm2 ).
NOTE: Fuel pump may also be activated by connecting battery voltage to specified terminals on fuel pump. See Fig. 9 .
8.If fuel pressure is within specification, go to next step. If fuel pressure exceeds specification, replace fuel pressure regulator mounted on fuel pump in the fuel tank. See FUEL SYSTEM in REMOVAL, OVERHAUL & INSTALLATION - V6 & V8 article. If fuel pressure is less than specified, check for leaking fuel hoses or connections, restricted fuel filter, defective fuel pump or defective fuel pressure regulator. 9.Remove scan tool from data link connector No. 3. Start engine and note fuel pressure with engine idling. Fuel pressure should be 44-50 psi (3.1-3.5 kg/cm2 ). Shut engine off and note fuel pressure. Fuel pressure should remain at least 21 psi (1.5 kg/cm2 ) for a minimum of 5 minutes. If fuel pressure is within specification and holds as specified, go to next step. If fuel pressure is not within specification or does not hold as specified, check for defective fuel pump, fuel injector or fuel pressure regulator. 10.Release fuel pressure. Disconnect negative battery cable. Remove adapter, hose, fuel pressure gauge and fuel pipe connector.

10/10/2008
BASIC DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURES - V6 & V8 -1999 Toyota Camry LE
Page 2 of 2
CAUTION:DO NOT reuse old retainer when installing No. 1 fuel pipe on fuel filter. Always use a NEW retainer.
11.Apply light coat of engine oil on tip of pipe on fuel filter to allow for ease of disconnect fitting and No. 1 fuel pipe installation. Using NEW retainer, install No. 1 fuel pipe on fuel filter until "click" sound is heard. DO NOT reuse old retainer. Pull on No. 1 fuel pipe to ensure fuel pipe is properly locked on fuel filter. 12.Reinstall fuel pipe clamp until "click" sound is heard. Pull upward on fuel pipe clamp to ensure fuel pipe clamp is securely locked on fuel filter. Install negative battery cable. Check for fuel leaks by using scan tool to energize fuel pump.
Fig. 16: Disconnecting No. 1 Fuel Pipe From Fuel Filter (Avalon, Camry & Camry Solara)

Fig. 17: Installing Fuel Pressure Gauge (Avalon, Camry & Camry Solara)


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/62217_Pipe_1.jpg



http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/62217_pipeb_1.jpg


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/62217_pump_3.jpg


Merlin2021
Oct 10, 2008.
Hey guys-
Thanks so much for your detailed explanation concerning checking fuel pressure. I took the car back to the dealer today to have them replace the " flex pipe" and paid them to check out the fuel pressure. I got your reply tonight after returning from the dealer. The running pressure was within book specs, and the leakdown (after shutting the engine off), did not exceed book specs either. The technician gave me a copy of the svc manual page describing the procedure, and his results. So, I am reasonably confident that the injectors are not leaking down flooding the engine. The dealer did not look into the hard start symptom any further due to time constraints. So, I have the car back again, it is quieter, but starts only after excessive cranking. Thank you for supplying the pressure test adapter number, I will order one from the dealer.
So, what is the logical next step? I still suspect the IAC valve may be sticky or stuck, perhaps I messed it up while spraying and cleaning the throttle valve. I had previously removed the electro-manetic IAC actuator and discovered that it is not directly connected to the actual IAC valve. So, I am assuming that if the mechanism was jammed, or movement is restricted, there would be no fault code triggered (no check engine light). Once again, I am suspect of the IAC because the cold idle is not as high as it was prior to injector replacement. I have a 5-speed which usually idles at about 1800 when cold, the cold idle is now about 1400. I have checked out my work several times, and honestly can't find anything obvious that I messed up while doing the job. Is it possible that I received the wrong injectors from the remanufacturing service? Are there different injectors used for the manual/automatic models? I was going to buy a used throttle valve off ebay, there were several listed for my car. But, the various auctions were for automatic throttle valves. The sellers insisted that 5-speed models used a different throttle valve than automatics. Let me know what you think, and thanks for sticking with me. Don

Tiny
Dkellogg56
Oct 11, 2008.
A bad IAC can cause hard starts, so can the ECT and a bad EWGR and PCV.
AD

Merlin2021
Oct 11, 2008.
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly Merlin.I see you are located in Boston, I work out of Logan and live in Providence.
I will disassemble the IAC after I buy the gaskets, I suspect that I may have messed it up while cleaning the throttle valve.
I surely understand how the ECT could be causing a problem. I also understand why there is no check engine light if the sensor is " not out of range". I will look in the manual to see if I can find some cold/hot resistance readings for the ECT (I don't have a scan tester).
I am assuming the EGR should be " closed" when starting, I will look in the manual to see if there is some way to check that out without a scan tester. I did have to disconnect the EGR exhaust tube connector when I did the job, so maybe I disturbed the EGR.
I did check the PCV when I replaced the injectors, it was clean and working OK, perhaps the hose got split or is leaking, will check that out again.
I will get back to you once I have looked at these things, thanks-
Don

Tiny
Dkellogg56
Oct 12, 2008.
Heres the range chart for the ECT.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/62217_ECT_8.jpg


Merlin2021
Oct 12, 2008.
Merlin-
Thanks for the graph, I check the ECT cold, was about 3000 ohms, hot was about 200 ohms. So, that seems to say there is no problem with the ECT.
I also looked at the " throttle cracking system".I'm not sure just what it is supposed to do, but it looks like the throttle was slightly cracked when the engine wasn't running, and closed (against the stop) with the engine idling. So, it seems like this system is working OK. And no, I did not mess with the throttle stop adjustment, the yellow sealer is still in place.
I ordered the throttle body and IAC gaskets this morning, they will be here on Tuesday. I am hoping to find a problem here that is keeping the IAC from opening completely. I am guessing the car wouldn't idle correctly if the IAC wasn't closing completely, perhaps I loosened up some debris (or maybe a bristle from the parts cleaner brush I used) which is keeping the IAC from opening completely. I have to drive to Logan tomorrow, so I didn't want to disassemble the IAC today without replacement gaskets.
Thanks again for sticking with me, I tried to give you " my one point", but the system said I have no points.I hope I can help you out someday, I used to be the OMC (Evinrude/Johnson outboard) service rep for the area. So, please let me know if you ever have questions about OMC outboards. Don
dkellogg56@yahoo. Com

Tiny
Dkellogg56
Oct 12, 2008.
All the ideas are great and well thought out however I do have one question. You said the fuel filter was rusted a bit where it hooked to the fuel lines but you didn't say weather or not you replaced it. If you didn't replace the fuel filter and it is that old then it is time. Just another idea and I didn't see an answer as to the fuel being replaced or not.

Racefan966
Oct 13, 2008.

AD