Timing/CAM problem

Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
  • 2006 KIA SORENTO
  • 3.5L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 186,000 MILES
Ran codes said cam shaft position sensor. So pulled from of motor off and got to where the sensor is during that time saw that the timing belt was not only in bad shape but shredded. So I pulled off since it was not in time from belt shredding was not worried figured I would put back in time with the new belt. But upon further investigation I noticed one set of cams on driver side is completely locked and will not move, but passenger side can be moved with just 2 fingers. Without pulling anything apart farther I was curious on how bad things can get before I decide I can push through it and just end up sinking money into a car that might not be worth it.
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Monday, March 2nd, 2020 AT 5:47 PM

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Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Okay, you have me confused. First there is enough tension on the cams from the valves and springs that you shouldn't be able to turn it by hand (at least not easily as described). So that is concern 1. Second, try turning the locked cam in the opposite direction. Something internal may be hitting and blocking it.

The idea that the cam sensor code was active is most likely the result of the belt.

If this engine has jumped time, it is an interference engine and that may explain why you can't turn the cam. Was the engine still running before you started work? Also, take a look at the attached picture. It shows where the timing marks should be. Confirm that is where they are.

Let me know what you find. Also, if you have other questions, let me know.
Joe
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Monday, March 2nd, 2020 AT 7:10 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
On your picture it is left bank. Before starting work it quit running on highway and wouldn’t start back which is why I decided to run codes. Then after seeing cam sensor I pulled to where I’m at now left bank is completely locked up turning both ways. It took teeth of the belt of about a foot of teeth and main shaft was eating through belt instead of turning at that point my only option is to open left side after pulling intake off and diving into the internals and hope it’s 2 valves bent and no damages past valves so far car was bought for $1,500.00 and didn’t know if I should continue to put money into it. I have removed most bolts from intake. So I guess I’m missing a few since I couldn’t lift it off.
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Monday, March 2nd, 2020 AT 7:16 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
I have a feeling that is what happened.

______________________

I don't know if you need them, but here are the directions for removal and replacement of the intake. Torque specs tightening sequence and other info is included. See pics attached.

_____________________

2006 Kia Truck Sorento 4WD V6-3.5L
Procedures
Vehicle Engine, Cooling and Exhaust Engine Intake Manifold Service and Repair Procedures
PROCEDURES
INTAKE MANIFOLD

pic 1

COMPONENTS

REMOVAL

pic 2

1. Remove the air intake hose connected to the throttle body.
2. Remove the accelerator and cruise control cables.
3. Remove the engine coolant hose and throttle body.
4. Remove the P.C.V. Hose and brake booster vacuum hoses.

Pic 3

5. Disconnect the vacuum hose connections.

Pic 4

pic 5

6. Remove the surge tank stay.
7. Bleed off the pressure in the fuel pipe line to prevent the fuel from spilling.

Pic 6

8. Disconnect the connector from high pressure hose.

Pic 7

9. Remove the surge tank and gasket.

Pic 8

10. Disconnect the fuel injector harness connector

pic 9

11. Remove the delivery pipe with the fuel injector and the pressure regulator.

NOTE: When the delivery pipe is removed, be careful not to drop an injector.

12. Disconnect the wiring harness of the coolant sensor assembly.

Pic 10

13. Remove the surge tank.

INSPECTION
SURGE TANK AND INTAKE MANIFOLD
1. Check the surge tank and intake man if old for damage, cracking or restriction of the vacuum outlet port, water or gas passages.

Pic 11

2. Check for distortion on the surface using a straight edge and feeler gauge.
Standard value: 0.15 mm (0.006 inch) or less
Service limit: 0.2 mm (0.0078 inch)

INSTALLATION

pic 12

pic 13

pic 14

1. Install the intake manifold and delivery pipe reversing the order of the removal procedure.
Tightening torque
Intake manifold: 19.6 - 22.6 Nm (200 - 230 kg-cm, 14.5 - 16.6 ft. Lbs.)
Surge tankstay: 15 - 20 Nm (150 - 200 kg-cm, 11 - 14 ft. Lbs.)

_______________________________________

Here are all the directions for cylinder head inspection and repair.

2006 Kia Truck Sorento 4WD V6-3.5L
Removal and Replacement
Vehicle Engine, Cooling and Exhaust Engine Cylinder Head Assembly Service and Repair Procedures Removal and Replacement
REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT
CYLINDER HEAD

pic 15

COMPONENTS

DISASSEMBLY
1. Drain the coolant and disconnect the upper radiator hose.
2. Remove the breather hose and air-intake hose.
3. Remove the vacuum hose, fuel hose and coolant hose.
4. Remove the intake manifold.
5. Remove the cables from the spark plugs. The cables should be removed by holding the boot portion.
6. Remove the ignition coil.
7. Remove the upper and lower timing belt cover.

Pic 16

8. Remove the timing belt and camshaft sprockets.
9. Remove the heat protector and exhaust manifold assembly.
10. Remove the coolant pump pulley and head cover.
11. Remove the intake and exhaust camshaft.

Pic 17

pic 18

12. Remove the cylinder head assembly. The cylinder head bolts should be removed using the 12 mm socket, in two or three steps.
13. Clean the gasket pieces from the cylinder block top surface and cylinder head bottom surface.

NOTE: Make sure that fragments from the gasket do not fall in the engine.

RETAINER LOCK
1. Compress the valve spring using special tool. (09222-28000, 09222-28100)

pic 19

2. Remove the retainer lock.

INSPECTION
CYLINDER HEAD
1. Remove scale, sealing compound and carbon deposits. After cleaning oil passages, apply compressed air to make certain that the passages are not clogged.
2. Visually check the cylinder head for cracks, damage or water leakage.

Pic 20

3. Check the cylinder head surface for flatness with a straight edge and feeler gauge as shown in the illustration.
Cylinder head flatness:
Standard dimensions: Maximum 0.03 mm (0.0059 inch)
Service limit: 0.05 mm (0.0020 inch)

VALVE GUIDES

pic 21

Check the valve stem-to-guide clearance. If the clearance exceeds the service limit, replace the valve guide with a new oversize guide.
Valve stem-to-guide clearance
Standard value
Intake: 0.02 - 0.05 mm (0.0009 - 0.0020 inch)
Exhaust: 0.050 - 0.085 mm (0.0020 - 0.0033 inch)

VALVE
1. Replace the valve if its stem is bent, worn or damaged. Also replace it if the stem end (the surface contacting the hydraulic-lash adjuster) is hollowed out.

Pic 22

2. Check the valve face contact area, and recondition or replace as necessary.

Pic 23

3. Replace the valve if the width of the margin (thickness of the valve head) is less than the minimum specified.
Valve margin
Standard value
Intake: 1.0 mm (0.0394 inch)
Exhaust: 1.5 mm (0.0590 inch)
Service limit
Intake: 0.5 mm (0.0197 inch)
Exhaust: 1.0 mm (0.0394 inch)

VALVE SPRING
1. Check the free height of each valve spring and replace if necessary.

Pic 24

2. Using a square, test the squareness of each valve spring. If the spring is excessively out-of-square, replace it.
Valve spring
Standard value
Free height: 46.4 mm (1.8268 inch)
Load: 24 kg /37.9 mm (53 lb / 1.492 inch)
Out-of-square: Maximum 2
Service limit
Free height: 45.4 mm (1.7874 inch)
Out-of-square: Maximum 4

RECONDITIONING VALVE SEAT
1. Before reconditioning, check the valve guide for wear. Replace worn guides if necessary and then recondition the valve seats.
2. Recondition the valve seat using the Valve Seat Cutter and Pilot.

Pic 25
3. After reconditioning, the valve and valve seat should be lapped lightly with a lapping compound.

REPLACING VALVE GUIDE
1. Using the special tool (09221-3F000(A)), withdraw the old valve guide out the bottom of the cylinder head.

Pic 26

2. Recondition the valve guide hole so that it can receive the newly press-fitted oversize valve guide.

Pic 27

VALVE GUIDE OVERSIZES

3. Using the special tool (09221-3F000 (A), 09221-3F000(B)) press-fit the valve guide. The valve guide must be press-fitted from the upper side of the cylinder head. Keep in mind that the intake and exhaust valve guides are different in length.
4. After the valve guide is press-fitted, insert a new valve and check for proper clearance.

Pic 28

5. After the valve guide is replaced, check that the valve is fully seated. Recondition the valve seats as necessary.

NOTE: Do not install a valve guide unless it is oversize.

REPLACING VALVE SEAT RING

pic 29

1. Cut away the inner face of the valve seat to reduce the wall thickness.

Pic 30

2. Enlarge the diameter of the valve seat so that it matches the specified hole diameter of the new valve seat ring.

Pic 31

VALVE SEAT RING OVERSIZES

3. Heat the cylinder head to about 250 C (480 F) and press-fit an oversize seat ring for the bore in the cylinder head.
4. Using lapping compound, lap the valve to the new seat.
Valve seat contact width
Intake: 0.9 - 1.3 mm (0.035 - 0.051 inch)
Exhaust: 0.9 - 1.3 mm (0.035 - 0.051 inch)

REASSEMBLY
1. Install the spring seats.

Pic 32

pic 33

2. Using special tool (09222-28200), lightly tap the seal in position.

NOTE:
- Do not reuse old valve stem seals.
- Incorrect installation of the seal could result in oil leakage of from the valve guides.

3. Apply engine oil to each valve. Insert the valve into their guides. Avoid pushing the valve into the seal by force. After installing the valve, check that it moves smoothly.

Pic 34

4. Place valve springs so that the side coated with enamel faces toward the valve spring retainer.

Pic 35

5. Using the special tool (09222-28000, 09222-28100), compress the spring and install the retainer locks. After installing the valves, ensure that the retainer locks are correctly in place before releasing the valve spring compressor.

NOTE: When the spring is compressed, check that the valve stem seal is not pressed against the bottom of the retainer.

6. Clean both gasket surfaces of the cylinder head and cylinder block.
7. Verify the identification marks on the cylinder head gasket.

Pic 36

8. Install the gasket so that the surface with the identification mark faces toward the cylinder head.

NOTE: Do not apply sealant to these surfaces.

Pic 37

9. Tighten the cylinder head bolts in the sequence shown in the illustration with a torque wrench.

Pic 38

10. Tighten the cylinder head bolts using the torque-angle method. Starting at top center, tighten all cylinder head bolts in sequence as shown in the illustration, using the 12 mm socket.
Tightening procedure
Cylinder head bolt: 105 - 115 Nm (1050 - 1150 kg-cm, 75 - 82 ft. Lbs.)

________________________________

Let me know if this helps or if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe
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Monday, March 2nd, 2020 AT 8:01 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
Greatly appreciate it. I’ll have to post updates at later time when I get to the problem.
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Monday, March 2nd, 2020 AT 8:08 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Not a problem. I hope it helps. Let me know how things turn out for you.

Take care,
Joe
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Monday, March 2nd, 2020 AT 8:14 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
Okay, so I got to cams and pulled them out. Here is the damage so far. Any idea what would cause this to happen?
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Friday, April 3rd, 2020 AT 12:59 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

Is the one cap broken? See picture 1.

When I first looked at it, I thought a lack of oil. However, if that cap is broken, I have a feeling that when the belt broke or jumped time, there was internal interference causing the one cap to break.

Is there any damage to the cam?

Joe
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Friday, April 3rd, 2020 AT 5:44 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
Cam was locked into place and there is no oil and looks like it started to take layers of metal from the heat I was curious what could cause that cause it is full of oil and fresh oil change right before problem. It was completely dry and burned on oil. All except 2 rocker arms where off and laying loose.
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Friday, April 3rd, 2020 AT 5:51 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Do you think this is what caused the timing belt to fail? That is what I'm thinking. Was the oil light ever on? I would think you would have heard a knocking if it was starved of oil to this extent before it happened.
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Friday, April 3rd, 2020 AT 6:17 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
Oil light was never on. I could see that oil leak from valve covers before this happened so I know at some point oil was leaking there. But heard valve tick is what it sounded and went away after driving a short distance then cousin used car to go to work and he called said tick was loud then it shut off seems to me something stopped the oil from going in there and it heated every thing up to the point of failure and then locked left bank and then stripped timing belt because it bent cam shaft sprocket.
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Friday, April 3rd, 2020 AT 6:22 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Something in one of the oil galleries had to plug to stop oil flow. I have to be honest, I've seen two on one side of the engine lock but never just one.

I did a quick check on top end noise related to the cams. Take a look at the attached pic. Since we know the oil was full and clean and the light wasn't on, it appears the manual is indicating an issue with the HLA (hydraulic lash adjusters). The only thing that would have cause them to be starved for oil would be a blockage in the head.

Also, read this.

Check each bearing for damage. If the bearing surface is excessively damaged, replace the cylinder head assembly or camshaft bearing cap, as necessary.

Based on that, I have a feeling there was excessive end play in that cam that led to the oil problem as well as the damage.

Joe.
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Friday, April 3rd, 2020 AT 6:47 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
So I’m going to pull all the way down to the block because I don’t know what caused it and caps and head have a lot of damage layers of metal. I’m guessing from bearings heating up so I’m going to pull it all and start replacing any damage parts and never heard of HLA.
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Friday, April 3rd, 2020 AT 7:42 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

It was heat that caused it due to not getting oil. I have to be honest, you may be better off getting a replacement engine. The valves are likely bent in the heads and there could be piston damage.

Regardless, let me know what you decide. If you need directions or help, let me know.

Joe
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Friday, April 3rd, 2020 AT 9:02 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
It’s sister in law car and currently cash flow prevents buying used engine since most are running at $1,300.00 around me with 130,000-160,000 miles it had 180,000. If I pull all the way to block and no damage to pistons. Can I empty oil to check for metal fragments and if none assemble with a used head valves and cams since when it heated the bearing from no oil it locked the cam and bent the sprocket? Would it run or is the whole motor shot? Right bank and main crank spin no problem.
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Saturday, April 4th, 2020 AT 9:52 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

Anything is fixable. My biggest concern is that you get into it and then realize you have a ton of time into it and have nearly the same cost as a replacement engine. I guess, as long as there is no damage to the pistons, you should be okay. Just remember, if you put a thousand into it, it still has 180,000 on it.

Please feel free to let me know if you need help if you decide to rebuild it.

Joe
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Saturday, April 4th, 2020 AT 10:46 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
Comfortable have said with the amount of failure that’s in that head that maybe the oil pump is out. So I’m going to pull the other side valve cover and check that to make sure everything is good there. Can anyone tell me where the oil pump is located on this?
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Sunday, April 5th, 2020 AT 1:17 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

Not a problem. It runs off the front of the crankshaft and is behind the timing belt pulley on the crank. I attached two pics. One is an exploded view and the other is what the pump looks like complete.

Let me know if this helps.
Joe
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Sunday, April 5th, 2020 AT 5:51 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
Okay, so I pulled the bad head off and installed used one. I am assembling everything and when I comes to the hoses i'm a little lost since I couldn't do it fast enough to remember and didn't have a way to take pictures as I removed some things. Is there any diagrams that show just the cooling system? Then the fuel regulator on the rail has a small hose and couldn't find where it went. I bought the service manual and it was not much help most electrical has a connection that will only plug into the correct one and i'm pretty sure I can figure them out with the information I have but nothing that shows coolant system. Thanks in advance you guys have no idea how big of a help you guys have been through multiple issues not just this one.
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Sunday, April 19th, 2020 AT 10:44 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

I attached what I could find on the cooling system. As far as small hose to the fuel pressure regulator, that is a vacuum line and should attach on the intake manifold where it has constant engine vacuum

_________________________

I'm surprised I can't find more pics on the cooling system. I looked up the water pump, radiator, heater hose, and so on and found nothing other than what I attached.

If it is possible, take pics and send them to me so I can see where you are confused. We'll figure it out.

Take care,
Joe
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Sunday, April 19th, 2020 AT 7:28 PM
Tiny
JWR2009
  • MEMBER
I’m at same point so far I bought both books a Haynes and a Kia service dealership repair both have same diagrams and info I am surprised with the lack of info on the two systems. Here is the pictures of ones I’m confused on the three all attached together. I figured out some but can’t find them all. I’m about to go to junk yard tomorrow and find one complete and take some photos to remember. So maybe I’ll have answers tomorrow or Tuesday.
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Sunday, April 19th, 2020 AT 7:37 PM

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