Random stalls while driving usually while idle at stoplight

Tiny
CHRISTIAN COCKRELL
  • MEMBER
  • 1996 CHEVROLET SUBURBAN
  • 5.7L
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 181,000 MILES
Background info:

For the last month my SUV listed above K1500 would stalk out while either waiting in park or more aggravating while waiting at a stop light. The catch is that after stalling I would be unable to start the vehicle again for around 20-30 minutes. All attempts at starting would be met with the sound of the engine turning over but just not firing. Then after waiting for said time It would start again and run normally for an hour or so whether driving or sitting in park. When I say it would stall it wouldn’t slowly sputter or bog down it would just quit.

More recently when this happened I noticed the intervals between stalling had gotten shorter and shorter to the point that driving even 5 minutes would cause it to stall out again. A trip back fro the store 3 miles away turned into a 3 stall 2 hours and 30 minute adventure.



Diagnosing and attempted fixes:

After getting it home I realized it sounded like it was starved for fuel so I first replaced the fuel filter which afterwards now I can no longer even get the vehicle to run anymore. My friend told me to check the pump and while turning the key I could here a series of high pitched chirps instead of the running noise. I then went to replace the fuel pump (Just the pump unit not the whole assembly) but ironically the new pump was defective.

I came to the realization after manually jumping the fuel relay (pin 87 to 30) to send power to the pump and was met with no reaction. Needless to say I manually verified 12v power at the clip near the frame before the tank and then again by pulling the whole assembly and checking at the clip that plugs into the pump. Oddly enough I tried hooking up the old pump and it started right up. Switching out the fuel pump back to the original I then realized that the signal must not be reaching the pump.

Going back to the fuel relay I used my multi-meter to verify that 86 ground was working, 87 load power was fine, however there was no voltage across 85 (power signal from the PCM). I checked 20amp fuse ECM-b which was fine (the fuse is after the relay but I thought I should mention it even tho it’s kinda a given since power did make it to the fuel pump clip) so I decided to try one last thing before giving up. After manually jumpering 87 to 30 on the fuel relay again I could now here the fuel pump (the original fuel pump is on the assembly) turn on and pressurize the fuel rail under the hood and after turning the ignition I was able to start my suburban and it stayed running.

This should pretty much clear any of the normal typical issues that the 5.7L Vortec engine typically sees in a no-start/no-run scenario so I think the issue lies with my PCM but it’s an expensive part and I was hoping to get some feedback from the community before ordering.

Thanks to those that took the time to read through all this.
Monday, March 2nd, 2020 AT 3:11 AM

5 Replies

Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Good morning.

Do you have a balance pump on the frame rail? It shows a relay and a control for this. I attached a diagram for that system.

I also attached the fuel pump relay diagram. The ECM provides power to the control side for 2 seconds with the key on. Power will be provided full while cranking. Did you check it while cranking?

Roy
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Monday, March 2nd, 2020 AT 5:39 AM
Tiny
CHRISTIAN COCKRELL
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
Let me go look under the vehicle as to whether or not I can find the balance pump. My vehicle has a single 40gal gas tank so I don’t believe it does. I noticed in one of the diagrams the grey wire you had highlighted was traveling the path that went through dual fuel tanks, would this affect the other diagrams you posted?

When I turn the key 87a fuel pump prime (labeled B2 in the fuel pump relay diagram) receives the 12v signal for 2 seconds then cuts out like normal. With the key turned but not cranking 85 on the control side (labeled B3 in the fuel pump relay diagram) doesn’t show any voltage nor any voltage while cranking.
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Monday, March 2nd, 2020 AT 11:00 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Okay, B3 comes from the ECM. It should send a signal for 2 seconds with key on and full voltage while cranking and running. Once it sees an RPM signal from the ignition system, it will send a signal.

Roy
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Tuesday, March 3rd, 2020 AT 5:25 AM
Tiny
CHRISTIAN COCKRELL
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
In 4 other videos I have watched of people diagnosing fuel pump issues for this year 5.7L engine, B3 should show 12v with the key in the on position. B2 the pump prime which is normally connected to the fuel pump when the relay is not engaged will receive 12v signal for 2 seconds when you bump the key forward. The purpose being to “prime the fuel lines” before starting the vehicle.

B3 control side signal from the PCM is supposed to show a phantom 12v signal with the key bumped on. I say phantom voltage because the voltage a “bias voltage” induced from the resistor in the PCM, if you tried to test it with a signal light it won’t light up. This also makes sense from a logical stand point as you wouldn’t want the pump running non stop with the key turned and the vehicle not running. Then while cranking like you mentioned earlier it should be receiving the actual 12v signal which would engage control side the relay connecting B1(load side power) to A3 (fuel pump).

So to reiterate again B3 doesn’t show voltage with key on or cranking, would this be indicative of a failure of the PCM or is there any other reason why the PCM would not send out the signal? From what I can tell oil cutoff switch is after the relay so if it failed I wouldn’t receive power at the pump when jumping the relay. Some people have mentioned the crankshaft position sensor however from what you mentioned should I should check the ignition signal to the PCM?

Thank you again for taking the time to help me with this issue. It has been frustrating beyond belief the past few days.

Explanation of “bias voltage” for this vehicle. Their issue was backwards wired fuel pump which when corrected lead to vehicle start. Showing that everything they demonstrated throughout video is normal operation and how electrical side should be.

https://youtu.be/McnXLcJNVfI
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Tuesday, March 3rd, 2020 AT 3:02 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
The PCM sends out 12 volts full for 2 seconds with the key on. Then it goes to full power when the engine is cranking.

Go to the PCM and see if the signal is at the connector to be sure there is not a wiring issue to the relay.

Roy
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Tuesday, March 3rd, 2020 AT 4:28 PM

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