No spark on all plugs

Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
  • 1998 DODGE NEON
  • 2.0L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 197,000 MILES
All fuses are okay, used spark tester, no spark seen on all plugs. Initially it started, with good spark on all plug. Turned the engine off and on for a couple of times to make sure it will not stall again. On the last attempt to start, it did not fire up anymore; tested the plugs with spark tester, no more spark seen on all the plugs.


Background:

Three weeks ago, hard starting symptoms started. At time it starts after seven times, once it runs, drives smoothly.
Two weeks later, started to stall from a smooth ride, seems like no fuel.
Finally would not start. Fuel pump replaced due to no sound coming from tank when engine is on
Hard starting at first, hooked up with my van for extra power, it started.
After a couple of trouble free drive, previous hard starting started all over again, and stalls again just like before.
During the day, it starts, but will not again when engine idled for a few minutes.
Now it will not start anymore.


Observation:
My car is installed with a remote alarm with key-less entry which has not been in used for more than two years now because the remote switches are no longer working.
Before when negative battery terminal is detached and put back again, the alarm does not activate, but this time when I removed and replaced the negative terminal, the alarm sets on, and I cannot deactivate it because I do not have a working remote switch. So I unplugged all the connectors to the alarm module.
Also, when the engine is cranking, I hear an unusual sound in the tank, most likely coming from the fuel pump, which I have not heard before.

Please help, I am already having migraine figuring out how to fix this problem.

I would highly appreciate any advice.
Thank you.
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Tuesday, April 10th, 2018 AT 5:46 PM

19 Replies

Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
Did the no spark occur before or after you disconnected the alarm? Most connect into the ignition or fuel to shut them off if tampered with. See if you can find the install instructions for it and simply reverse the process, repair any cut wires and eliminate that as a possible problem.

My next thought would be that the crank sensor has failed, it will cause hard starting and loss of spark.
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Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 AT 12:56 AM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your advice.

I do not remember if it was before or after I disconnected the alarm when the no spark occurred.

Added information, I have a spare new exact same module which I plugged into the same wiring harness for the old alarm module, no alarm sound anymore but the new module is not working. As per user manual the remote switches have to be coded to the module. I did exactly as per instruction but cannot get it working.

Still no spark.
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Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 AT 12:07 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
What do you have for test equipment?
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Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 AT 12:20 PM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your advice.

I do not remember if it was before or after I disconnected the alarm when the no spark occurred.

Added information, I have a spare new exact same module which I plugged into the same wiring harness for the old alarm module, no alarm sound anymore but the new module is not working. As per user manual the remote switches has to be coded to the module. I did exactly as per instruction but cannot get it working.
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Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 AT 4:35 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
Is the alarm/immobilizer an OEM Dodge unit or after-market? It is very possible that it is the problem if it does not function.
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Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 AT 6:59 PM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
I only have a spark tester and just ordered a multi-tester.
Good news, I was able to make the spare new alarm module work.
I tested the coil pack for sparks, unfortunately there is still none coming from either the primary or secondary coil.
I am thinking of either replacing it or the crankshaft positioning sensor or both?
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Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 AT 8:12 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
I would start by testing the power and grounds to the coil pack. Also the resistance across the towers. If you unplug the coil you will see three pins. Center is battery power Pin to the 1/4 side fires 1/4, pin to the 2/3 side fires 2/3 by grounding and breaking the circuit.
When you get your meter you can check the resistance across the towers. 1-4 should be 3,500 ohms min. 4,900 maximum 2-3 is 2,950 ohms to 4,100 max.
Then from the center power pin to the outer pins should be.45 -.65 ohm.

If the coil checks out then check at the center pin on the coil wiring harness pin for the ASD signal that would indicate the cam sensor is okay. That test is as follows and tests the cam and crank signals.

Connect a test light to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground. The B+ wire for the DIS coil is the center terminal. Do not spread the terminal with the test light probe.

Turn the ignition key to the ON position.- The test light should flash ON and then OFF. Do not turn the Key to OFF position, leave it in the ON position.

If the test light flashes momentarily, the PCM grounded the ASD relay.

If the test light did not flash, the ASD relay did not energize. The cause is either the relay or one of the relay circuits.

Crank the engine.
If the test light momentarily flashes during cranking, the PCM is not receiving a crankshaft position sensor signal.

If the test light did not flash during cranking, unplug the crankshaft position sensor connector. Turn the ignition key to the off position. Turn the key to the ON position, wait for the test light to momentarily flash once, then crank the engine.

If the test light momentarily flashes, the crankshaft position sensor is shorted and must be replaced.
If the light did not flash, the cause of the no-start is in either the crankshaft position sensor/camshaft position sensor 8 volt supply circuit, or the camshaft position sensor output or ground circuits.
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Thursday, April 12th, 2018 AT 4:22 AM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
Many thanks for this detailed instruction Steve, soon as I get my multi tester I will do this. I will keep you posted.

I highly appreciate your help.
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Thursday, April 12th, 2018 AT 8:15 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • ADMIN
Please let us know what happens. We want to see you back on the road. :)
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Friday, April 13th, 2018 AT 10:29 AM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
Yes Ken, I surely will. Thanks for following up.
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Sunday, April 15th, 2018 AT 12:23 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
Get a meter, Non-LED test light and you can test far more than you would think. Then add a scope like a Pico 4 channel and a decent scan tool and you can repair 99% of the issues with the electronics. A copy of Paul Danners book to explain all of the systems also will help a lot.
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Sunday, April 15th, 2018 AT 4:52 PM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
Hi Steve,
In the absence of the multi-meter, I went straight to checking the power and ground on the DIS coil. At first test, there was no momentary flash noted on light tester when ignition was turned on, and nothing as well during cranking, but, when I removed the ASD relay in an attempt to see if it works on the fuel pump slot (which it did) and pressed it back on its slot (ASD), and on the second check, the test light lit on then off when ignition was turned on, and there was also a good flash during cranking. I put the connector back in the coil, started the engine, there was strong spark on all plug terminals! After connecting all the plug wires to the coil, we started the engine, it started with just one click! We turned it on and off four times, but after idling for ten minutes, we turned it off and tried to start it again, it failed. I am suspecting the crankshaft position sensor must be the cause.
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Monday, April 16th, 2018 AT 8:41 PM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
I am expecting my meter today. I already have the non-LED test light. I am really thinking of buying a good scan tool. Will explore the Pico 4 channel you are suggesting.

Thanks, Steve.
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Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 AT 7:53 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
It is not a cheap tool but once you start using a scope you can check things you never thought could be tested. Crank, cam, MAP, cam/crank correlation, relative compression tests, and much more. You can download the software itself for free, then use some of the example files to "play" with it. They make a 2 channel as well.
For a scan tool it will depend on your budget, I have got a bunch laying around here. Mainly because they all have gaps or issues where they do not work well, even my OEM ones flake out now and then. I suggest looking at the Autel Maxisys Elite or the MS908 line. If you are just looking for a good tool but do not want everything look at the MS 906 line. For a ton of tools and support check out AEtools and AESwave They are both authorized sellers and provide support as well as a lot of other help.
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Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 AT 2:09 PM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
Hi Steve,
I cannot thank you enough for all these support.
I am picking up the meter today.
I will keep you posted on the development on my car.
Once again, many thanks!
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Thursday, April 19th, 2018 AT 7:13 AM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
Hi Steve,
I finally finished the work on my car, and it was a success!
I replaced the CKP sensor and as well as the CMP sensor since I got a new one too.
Now it is back into action!

Again, many thanks for your help, I truly appreciate it!
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Monday, April 23rd, 2018 AT 7:59 AM
Tiny
REDCRU777
  • MEMBER
Hi Ken,
This an update, my car is now back in action.
I successfully got it running after replacing the CKP and CMP sensors.
Thanks for this forum site, I truly appreciate it, and have recommended this site to my friends for their repair needs.
More power to you guys!
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Monday, April 23rd, 2018 AT 8:01 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
Great job. Glad to hear you got it repaired.
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Monday, April 23rd, 2018 AT 1:13 PM
Tiny
KEN L
  • ADMIN
Nice work, we are here to help, please use 2CarPros anytime.

Cheers, Ken
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Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 AT 10:04 AM

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