1986 Dodge Ram replace wiper switch with 3 way toggle?

Tiny
NIGHTOWL223
  • MEMBER
  • 1986 DODGE RAM
Electrical problem
1986 Dodge Ram V8 Two Wheel Drive Automatic

Hello,
This is an old beat-up D250 farm truck, so I don't want to do anything other than mount a 3 way switch to run the wipers on low & high. Wiper motor works when power is put to it, and I have checked for bad fuses/relays, etc. There is a plastic relay of some kind I removed from the wiper motor.
I also have my son's 1986 Lebaron Town & Country with the same issue. I have included pics of:
1) & 2) the motor from the Town & Country, where pins are, where relay(?) was removed.
3) the plastic relay(?) from the T&C's wiper motor
4) the same relay(?) from the D250 truck.

The truck's relay(?) does not have the melted resin the T & C does, but does have a small burn mark in the housing on the lower right (of the picture) corner of the resin-covered opening.

Whatever this plastic part is, the people at the parts store said it was a dealer-only part, and the dealership said it was a discontinued part. If this is a typical failure in the part, I don't want to get more from a junkyard that will likely just go bad within a short time...

Question 1 - is this an actual relay, or something other?
Question 2 - is there any harm in running a 3-way switch to operate the wipers?
Question 3 - any suggestions as to which pins to run power to in order to get the most benefit from the 3-way switch?
I would assume (dangerous, I know) that, of the 3 pins that are not grounds, one would be intermittent, one would be low, and one would be high. With a 3 way switch, bypassing the relay(?), am I right that the intermittent setting would not work as such?

Any other suggestions would also be appreciated.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/310608_003_1.jpg



http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/310608_004_1.jpg



http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/310608_005_1.jpg



http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/310608_006_1.jpg

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Monday, February 9th, 2009 AT 5:31 PM

11 Replies

Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
Hi nightowl223,

Thank you for the donation.

I have attached a wiring diagram for your understanding of the circuit.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_WiperMotor86DodgeCabD250_1.jpg




http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_WiperMotorDia86DodgeCabD250_1.jpg



The relay that you have removed should be the intermittent relay.

What is the problem with the wiper functions?
Did you test if there is power supply from the switch when wiper is operated?
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Friday, February 13th, 2009 AT 10:07 AM
Tiny
NIGHTOWL223
  • MEMBER
I wasn't driving it when it happened, but, as it was described to me, during a rain they were in use and behaving as normal at first. They slowly started operating as if they were on intermittent, which continued until the switch had to be put on high to even get them to operate every 30 seconds or so, and they eventually, over about ten minutes, stopped working all together, and even refused to go to the park position.
We checked fuses, checked for power to the switch, power to the motor, etc. We didn't use a voltmeter, just a test light, but there was power through the whole system until it got to the motor. We bypassed the relay with a temporary hot wire to test the motor, and it operated. So, unless we missed something painfully obvious, we came to the conclusion that the relay had to be at fault. Which, as I said, can't be bought new anymore.
If we missed something, please tell us what it might be, and if our plan to bypass the relay will work. It's a great farm truck, and we don't want to have to park it when there's rain.
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Friday, February 13th, 2009 AT 12:44 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
It is possible to rewire as you suggested without the intermittent mode but it will not stop in the parked position automatically. This is controlled by the intermittent mode. I need to know more to understand what the problem might be and then only would I be able to tell if rewiring is going to work.

Were you able to inpect the relay components?

When you applied direct voltage, was the wiper speed fast or slow? Whch terminal did you apply the voltage? Refer to identification in diagram.
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Friday, February 13th, 2009 AT 1:31 PM
Tiny
NIGHTOWL223
  • MEMBER
We couldn't run the hot wire while the motor was installed because of lack of access. We jumped a hot wire from the pin labeled P1 to the one labeled H in the diagram you put up. It operated, but we couldn't tell whether it was "high" or "low". We stopped at that point, and didn't try any other combinations. Should we have?
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Friday, February 13th, 2009 AT 1:57 PM
Tiny
NIGHTOWL223
  • MEMBER
Also, I included an (admittedly fuzzy) pic of the relay, which is the bottom one. As far as inspecting it, the only defect we could see visually is the small burnt/melted spot at the bottom right of the resined-over opening. The other relay pictured is from my son's project, an "86 Town & Country station wagon with the same issue. It has the resin melted almost completely away.
Should we check continuity through the relay's pins?
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Friday, February 13th, 2009 AT 2:02 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
The relay is an "A" relay meaning if powered it would contact and have continuity between 2 terminals and when not powered, it would have continuity between another 2 points. You should check for continuity.
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Friday, February 13th, 2009 AT 2:07 PM
Tiny
NIGHTOWL223
  • MEMBER
I can find no continuity from any pin to any other pin in any combination on either the truck's or the T & C's relay. Do I assume that mean the relay itself is the issue in this case?
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Friday, February 13th, 2009 AT 3:50 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
The problem described and test results provided rules out power supply fault. However the diagram shows that the high and low speed should be working even if the relay is faulty. Only fault would be the intermittent speed and return to park.

It looks more likely to be a fault with the motor or the circuit plate for power supply to the armature. It could be working and after sometime when the contact heats up, the motor won't work when continuity fails. The melted plastic is proof of the overheating. Another problerm could be the wiper linkages that are stilff and it is causing the motor to heat up and stop after some time.

If power is available, then a 3 way switch is not going to be any help. You need to modify the wires to bypass the relay. However if the motor is at fault, this modification would not work as well. You might have to look for a replacement motor assy. If the part is not available, modification with another make or model might be the only option. With direct power supply, run the motor for a longer period to rule out the motor faiult before doing any rewiring.
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Saturday, February 14th, 2009 AT 7:10 AM
Tiny
NIGHTOWL223
  • MEMBER
Do you know of, or know where I could find, listings of interchangeable years' models, or ones that wouldn't take much modification? Where it might just take modifying the mounting brackets slightly, I hope?
Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!
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Saturday, February 14th, 2009 AT 1:00 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
Sorry I do not have personal experience with modifications with this model so am not able to provide any models that might be interghangeable.

If you do know of any scrap yards, maybe you can try asking them. Likewise you can try the local parts outlets for an idea.
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Saturday, February 14th, 2009 AT 4:52 PM
Tiny
NIGHTOWL223
  • MEMBER
I was hoping there were websites out there that listed interchangeable parts, rather than trusting the junkyard's opinion - our local one isn't exactly run by Einstein.
But thank you very much for your time anyway.
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Sunday, February 15th, 2009 AT 3:42 PM

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