2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser CAM/CRANK WILL NOT SYNC

Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
  • 2001 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
  • 2.4L
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 98,000 MILES
GOT CAR WITH BAD: RADIATOR, & HEAD GASKET.

REPLACED RAD, HEAD GASKET, TIMING BELT, TIMING TENSIONER, & PULLY, WATER PUMP.

CAM/CRANK WILL NOT SYNC, ROUGH IDLE. DRIVES FINE.

TOOK EVERYTHING APART & RECHECK TIMING BELT INSTALL. EVERY THING OK.

REPLACED CAM, CRANK, & CAM SHAFT TARGET MAGNET WITH OEM PARTS 1 AT A TIME.

REPLACED ECM WITH REMAN, & HAVE HAD BOTH ECM'S IN CAR SEVERAL TIMES AFTER ALL OTHER WORK WAS DONE.

HAVE OTC GENISYS, & HAVE RESET CAM/ CRANK SEVERAL TIMES.

STILL NO CAM/CRANK SYNC.

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No
Thursday, March 5th, 2015 AT 8:48 AM

22 Replies

Tiny
DR LOOT
  • EXPERT
You are probably going to need a scanner to diagnose a problem, this is all I could find about your problem. I would recheck the following below and bring me word

6. Engine runs like it has a lowered rev limiter. Engine will not run above 2500 RPM. Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor and Crankshaft Position (CKP) sensor signals are not in sync according to the scan to.
2006 Chrysler PT Cruiser 2.4L, Vin B
Test Details. Confirmed Fix Details.

Tests/Procedures: 1. Scope the CMP and CKP sensors. Compare to a known good pattern. If not good, check for a bad sensor or defective target magnet for the CMP sensor. 2. Check for a loose or jumped timing belt.

6 Confirmed fixes

Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor
Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor
Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
Target Magnet
Jumped Timing Belt

1 - Camshaft Timing
1 - Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor
1 - Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
1 - Timing Belt
1 - Crankshaft Position Sensor And Camshaft Position Sensor Synchronization
1 - Camshaft Target Magnet
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Thursday, March 5th, 2015 AT 9:12 AM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
HELLO

AS I STATED I HAVE AN OTC GENISYS SCAN TOOL

I HAVE CAM & CRANK READINGS, BUT IT ALSO SAYS SYNC LOST

I HAVE RESET THE CAM/CRANK SEVERAL TIMES.

PT = 2001 PT CRUISER.

THE PT DRIVES FINE AT ALL RPM, I CAN MAKE THE PT GO ANY RPM I WANT

THE PT IDLES ROUGH.

ALSO I REPLACED THE SPARK PLUGS & WIRES.
FUEL INJECTION AT RAIL WITH BG, & BG 44K IN GAS TANK, NEW FUEL FILTER.
CLEANED THROTTLE BODY, INCLUDING IAC PASSAGE, & CLEANED, LUBED, & CHECKED THE IAC.
HAS GOOD VAC.

I HAVE BEEN DRIVING THE PT FOR THE LAST 3 MONTHS, ABOUT 3 TANKS OF GAS

I HAVE NO SCOPE

PLEASE ADVISE

THANK YOU JOHN'S AUTO REPAIR
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Thursday, March 5th, 2015 AT 1:11 PM
Tiny
DR LOOT
  • EXPERT
Check the EGR valve and PCV hoses to make sure none are cracked, split or detached. Best way to check all intake hoses is to spray them with a carb. Cleaner like B-12 chemtrol and listen for an immediate change in idle speed and engine rev. If this happens, you have a vacuum leak to the engine which will definetly cause this symptom and you will need to replace the defective hose.
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Thursday, March 5th, 2015 AT 7:55 PM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
HELLO.

THE SCANTOOL SAYS GOOD VAC.

I ALSO PUT A VAC GAUGE ON THE INTAKE.

I ALSO CHECKED THE INTAKE WITH CARB CLEANER, & PROPANE.

NO VAC LEAKS.

THE CAM & CRANK WILL NOT SINK, & I BELIEVE THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE ROUGH IDLE.

NORMALLY WHEN YOU DO A TIMING BELT & YOU HAVE A ROUGH IDLE IT IS BECAUSE THE TIMING BELT IS OFF 1 TOOTH, THAT IS WHY I TOOK EVERYTHING APART A SECOND TIME TO CHECK THAT I GOT THE TIMING BELT ON PROPERLY.

DOING A TIMING BELT ON THE PT CRUISER IS A REAL PAIN IN THE XXX.
PROBABLY THE WORST 1 I HAVE EVER DONE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME
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Friday, March 6th, 2015 AT 5:53 AM
Tiny
DR LOOT
  • EXPERT
You stated the following:

"I TOOK EVERYTHING APART A SECOND TIME TO CHECK THAT I GOT THE TIMING BELT ON PROPERLY."

was the belt on property or or did you have to make an adjustment ? did the timing belt break that's why you're changing it? you have done a lot of work on this vehicle, who did the vale job for you when you had to head off? you have stated you change the computers is that right? have you pulled the spark one at a time to see if you have a dead cylinder at idle? have you checked the wiring harness go into the PCM ? I am sending you a link that I found so you can check the crank sensor, sometimes even new ones are no good

http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/chrysler/2.0L-2.4L/how-to-test-the-crank-sensor-1
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Friday, March 6th, 2015 AT 6:35 AM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
HELLO AGAIN.

I REPLACED THE TIMING BELT BECAUSE I HAD EVERYTHING APART, NOT BROKE.

CHECKED ALL NEW SPARK PLUGS, & THEY ALL LOOKED GOOD. HAVE GOOD SPARK AT ALL PLUGS.

DID COMPRESSION CHECK ALL GOOD. NOT DEAD CYL.

AS I STATED THE PT DRIVES FINE, & WILL GO ANY RPM I WANT, & POWER IS GOOD

NO VALVE JOB, BUT HAD HEAD PLANED & CHECKED. WHEN IT WAS APART.

CHECKED WIRES FROM CAM & CRANK TO ECM

BOUGHT A PRE PROGRAMED ECM & PUT THAT IN.
I HAVE HAD BOTH COMPUTERS IN THE PT AFTER THE WORK WAS DONE.
I DID NOT THINK THAT THE ECM WAS THE PROBLEM BUT AT A LOSS SO I BOUGHT THE OTHER ECM.

THE PT RUNS FINE WHILE DRIVING & WILL GO ANY RPM I WANT, & HAS GOOD POWER. GOES GOOD UP ANY HILLS FINE.

I CAN FLOOR IT & WAIT FOR THE TRANY TO SHIFT WITH OUT LETTING OFF THE THROTTLE, & IT NEVER MISSES A BEAT.

ALSO REPLACED IAC, & DROVE FOR FEW DAYS, NO CHANGE.

ALSO I CHECKED FOR BAD CAT.

THE PROBLEM IS THE PT IDLES ROUGH &
THE CAM, CRANK WILL NOT SYNC.

THANK YOU AGAIN
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Friday, March 6th, 2015 AT 7:30 AM
Tiny
DR LOOT
  • EXPERT
I'm just doublechecking for myself so I understand now we have no "SYNC" did you check out that website I sent you? Check that out run the tests make sure the sensors are good I have bought some of those and they have been no good lets check that and we'll go from there.
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Friday, March 6th, 2015 AT 9:11 AM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
I DID NOT GO TO THE WEB SITE YET.

I REPLACED THE CAM & CRANK SENSORS WITH STANDARD PRODUCTS SENSORS FIRST, & THEN AFTER READING THAT PT CRUISER & OTHER CHRYSLERS DO NOT LIKE AFTERMARKET SENSORS, I THEN WENT & BOUGHT THE OEM SENSORS.

SO THAT WOULD MEAN THAT I WOULD HAVE TO HAVE 6 BAD SENSORS IF IT WAS A SENSOR PROBLEM, AS I HAD THE ORIGINAL SENSORS THAT CAME WITH THE PT, THE NEW STANDARD PRODUCTS SENSORS, & NOW I HAVE THE NEW OEM SENSORS IN THE PT.

EACH TIME I CHANGED THE SENSORS I DID THEM 1 AT A TIME & DID A TEST DROVE TO SEE IF ANY OF THE SENSORS MADE A DIFFERENCE. NO CHANGE.

GOING TO WEB SITE NOW
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Friday, March 6th, 2015 AT 10:30 AM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
I AM GETTING A CAM & CRANK SIGNAL ON THE SCAN TOOL, SO WHY WOULD I DO THE TESTS FROM THE WEB SITE.

IF THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THE 3 CRANK SENSORS I HAVE HAD IN THE PT THE THE PT WOULD NOT START.
THE PT WILL RUN WITH OUT THE CAM SENSOR PLUGGED IN SO THERE SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM WITH THE CRANK SENSOR.

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE REASON FOR DOING THE TESTS WHEN I AM GETTEING CAM & CRANK SENSOR READINGS ON MY SCANTOOL.

PLEASE ADVISE.

THANK YOU AGAIN
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Friday, March 6th, 2015 AT 10:59 AM
Tiny
DR LOOT
  • EXPERT
If you're getting a signal from the cam sensor, and the crank sensor on your scanner it has to be the ECM, the problem I'm having right now is that we don't have access to our Mitchell manuals that the company pays for so it's hard for me to look up information on your car to determine the cause, you will have to be patient I will send corporate and e-mail and see when those manual are going to be back online
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Friday, March 6th, 2015 AT 10:13 PM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
I DO APPRECIATE YOUR HELP BUT PLEASE LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE STATED THAT I HAVE DONE, & MAKE A CHECK LIST, SO WE ARE NOT WASTING OUR TIME TALKING ABOUT STUFF I HAVE ALREADY DONE.

AS FAR AS THE ECM I HAD THE ECM THAT CAME WITH THEPT, & THE PRE-PROGRAMED ECM, & AFTER THE CAM & CRANK WOULD NOT SYNC WITH THE NEW ECM I CALLED THE COMPANY I BOUGHT IT FROM & THEY HAD ME SEND IT BACK TO THEM & THEY CHECKED IT OUT & SAID IT WORKED FINE & SENT IT BACK TO ME, & I RE INSTALED IT &
THE SAME THING, ON SCAN TOOL, AFTER RESETING CAM/ CRANK, THE SCAN TOOL SAID: CAM YES, CRANK YES, SYNC LOST.

PLEASE ADVISE

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME, SINCERELY JOHN
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Saturday, March 7th, 2015 AT 8:44 AM
Tiny
DR LOOT
  • EXPERT
Now that you've told me everything you've done to the vehicle, now tell me what the vehicle is doing drive ability wise, don't leave anything out. Tell me what the codes on the computer, including the one stored in the history, be exact your explanation of how the engine runs out of all RPMs including but not limited to the engine surges at idle etc. Tell me any insignificant thing that you believe will not help. And tell me how many times it took you to put the timing belt on correctly.

There's a thread going on right now about how hard it is to set the timing just right in the cruiser. Even the certified mechanics say it's difficult to get it right but the problem is that's it's a pain to take it apart again to check it.

The other thing to try is the IAC (Idle Air Controller). It's located attached to the throttle body on the back side. A black plug-in. It can be cleaned or replaced and has helped others with idle problems.

I know that you check the timing but check it again:
below is a story of a person that has the same problem that you have any finally fixed it the timing belt was off tooth.

I started disassembly from the top, just enough to get the top timing belt cover off and see the cam sprockets, and guess what. They appeared to be off by a tooth.

Fully disassembled, and when I got to looking at it to line it all up I realized something, the motor appears to be sitting at a slight slant, so although the lines looked even and lined up, the where actually slightly off. Tilting my head to the side to adjust for the engine tilt, taking extra extra care to line the marks up, I got what looked to be lined up timing marks.

This time, before putting everything back together, I said what the heck.
I got a friend to crank it over while I watched everything under the hood. The engine actually started and idled fine. Woo Hoo!

Put everything back together and she purrs like a kitten now.

So the morale to the story is, YES, you need to reset the timing marks, cause they are off.

I currently have started on a 2nd cruiser that has 97k and a water pump leak. Tear down was fast and easy, considering myself somewhat of a pro at it now.
Waiting for some ordered parts to come in and I will be making my approach on reassembling a 2nd cruiser and hoping I don't make the same timing mistake twice. Plus knowing this time I will crank, start, and run the engine for a minute before I reassemble it all.

I hope this chapter in my PT Cruiser book proves itself helpful to any and everyone out there that is adventuring into the timing belt area of a PT Cruiser, and if your in the central IL area, give me a shout and we can work something out to get yours fixed.
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Saturday, March 7th, 2015 AT 9:28 AM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
NO CODES

I HAVE ALREADY EXPLAINED EVERYTHING I CAN ABOUT HOW IT RUNS.
3-5-15, & 3-6-15
AGAIN PLEASE READ EVERYTHING I HAVE ALREADY WRITTEN DOWN

THE IAC HAS ALREADY BEEN COVERED. 3-6-15
AGAIN PLEASE READ EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE ALREADY WRITTEN DOWN.

AS I ALREADY EXPLAINED WHEN I TOOK IT APART THE SECOND TIME EVERYTHING WAS CORRECT, & I JUST DOUBLE CHECKED IT. 3-6-15
YOU ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION & I ANSWERED IT.
AGAIN PLEASE READ EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE ALREADY WRITTEN DOWN

THE SECOND TIME I DID THE TIMING.
I PRINTED UP PICTURES FROM ALLDATA & MITCHEL ON DEMAND, & PUT A STRAIGHT RULER ON THE PICTURE & THEN ON THE ENGINE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TIMING MARKS ARE LINED UP CORRECT. THEN I TURNED THE ENGINE ABOUT 10 REVOLUTIONS & THE TIMING MARKS STAYED LINED UP.

WHEN EVERYTHING IS TOGETHER YOU CAN LOOK THROUGH THE FACTORY HOLE IN THE UPPER TIMING COVER & SEE THE TIMING MARKS ON THE CAMS.

THE THIRD TIME I CHECKED THE TIMING.
I TAKE OFF THE HARMONIC BALANCER & PUT THE CRANK ON THE TIMING MARK & THEN YOU LOOK THROUGH THE HOLE IN THE UPPER TIMING COVER, & I CAN SEE THE TIMING MARKS ON THE CAMS ARE LINED UP.
SO ALL 3 TIMING MARKS ARE LINED UP AS PER MITCHEL & ALL DATA.

I HAVE DONE AT LEAST 50 TIMING BELTS ON MANY DIFFERENT MAKES OF CARS.
YES I HAVE HAD THEM OFF 1 TOOTH BEFOR, & THE ENGINE IDLED ROUGH.
SO THAT IS WHY I TOOK THE PT CRUISER APART THE SECOND TIME.

REGARDS JOHN
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Saturday, March 7th, 2015 AT 12:30 PM
Tiny
DR LOOT
  • EXPERT
Sorry good buddy, I am just trying to make sure that you are competent! Now that you've done 50 timing belts I know I'm talking to someone that knows what they're doing, I only have one question, when you had to head off why didn't you take it in and have it checked? Why did the head have to come off? Was it because the engine was running rough? What I have figured out when you've got complicated problems sometimes you have to argue with each other before you get to the bottom of it. So let's relax and think about this. It will take me a while to read through everything again and digest it, maybe you will want to repost and see if another mechanic on the site will pick up and have some better answers.
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Saturday, March 7th, 2015 AT 9:28 PM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
OK HERE WE GO AGAIN

ON 3-5-15. THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE SAYS: GOT CAR WITH BAD RAD, & HEAD GASKET.

ON 3-6-15, YOU SAID: WHO DID THE VALVE JOB WHEN YOU HAD HEAD OFF.
ON 3-6-15 I SAID: NO VALVE JOB, BUT I GOT THE HEAD PLANED & CHECKED.

ON 3-7-15 I ASKED YOU TO MAKE A CHECK LIST OF ALL THE ITEMS WE HAVE COVERED.

TODAY 3-8-15, PLEASE MAKE A CHECK LIST OF THE ITEMS WE HAVE COVERED, SO WE DO NOT HAVE TO WASTE OUR TIME GOING OVER THE SAME THINGS TWO OR THREE TIMES.

YOUR DIGESTIVE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING, PLEASE MAKE A CHECK LIST.
ALMOST NOBODY CAN REMEMBER EVERYTHING, INCLUDING MY SELF.

REGARDS JOHN
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Sunday, March 8th, 2015 AT 10:08 AM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
HELLO AGAIN

I HAVE NOT HEARD BACK FROM YOU.

I HOPE I WAS NOT TO ABRASIVE.

PLEASE ADVISE.

THANKS JOHN
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Monday, March 9th, 2015 AT 4:41 PM
Tiny
DR LOOT
  • EXPERT
I think I already mentioned to you that we have no access to our Mitchells on demand manuals at this time we were off-line, so it's hard for me to investigate the problem on your car but I do know this, the cam sensor and the crank sensor along with the coolant temperature sensor and the O2 sensor work together. If any of those sensors are bad or the wiring harness is bad to the sensor the computer cannot sync.
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Monday, March 9th, 2015 AT 8:29 PM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
OK, ALL I CAN SAY IS VIA THE SCANTOOL THE TEMP & O2 LOOK FINE.

THE CAM & CRANK SAY YES.

I WILL BE GETTING A OLDER OTC VISION SCOPE FROM A FRIEND OF A FRIEND TO USE.

FROM MY VERY LIMITED SCOPE USE, WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO HOOK UP THE SCOPE & WHAT IS THE BEST SETTINGS FOR THE SCOPE.

I BELIEVE THE HOOK UP SHOULD BE PROBE TO SENSOR SIGNAL, & GROUND TO SENSOR GROUND.

THE SETTINGS IS WHAT I AM NOT SURE ABOUT AS FAR AS GETTING A NICE SQUARE WAVE THAT IS NOT TO FAST.

PLEASE ADVISE.

THANK YOU JOHN
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Tuesday, March 10th, 2015 AT 6:46 AM
Tiny
DR LOOT
  • EXPERT
You will have to send me the model of the OTC scanner. At any rate, I am looking at the wiring diagram of the engine compartment, looks like orange wire 44 from the PCM supplies 9 V power to the following sensors: camshaft sensor, crankshaft sensor, vehicle speed sensor and the VSS SIG located on the transmission control module. All those are connected together and come back to the PCM under wire 33 they should all have 9 V. Have you checked that?
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Tuesday, March 10th, 2015 AT 9:52 PM
Tiny
BORIS2468
  • MEMBER
HELLO

ACCORDING TO THE INFO I GOT, POWER SHOULD BE 8 VOLTS.

I STATED THAT I CHECKED THE WIRES FROM THE PCM TO THE SENSORS.

I CHECKED FOR POWER & GROUND, & CHECKED TO SEE IF I HAD POWER AT THE GROUND, & TO SEE IF I HAD GROUND AT POWER, & I CHECKED TO SEE IF I HAD CONTINUITY BETWEEN THE 3 WIRES, FOR THE CAM & CRANK, & EVERYTHING CHECKED GOOD, & I AM GETTING A SIGNAL TO THE SCAN TOOL

VIA SCAN TOOL I AM GETTING A SIGNAL OF YES, SO THAT WOULD MEAN THAT I HAVE POWER TO THE CAM & CRANK, & THE SPEEDO IS WORKING FINE SO THAT WOULD MEAN THAT I HAVE POWER FOR THAT. DO YOU THINK THAT I NEED TO DO MORE.

THE MAIN QUESTION I ASKED WAS ABOUT THE SCOPE SETTINGS, BUT YOU GAVE NO ANSWER.

I HOOKED UP THE SCOPE TO THE CAM WIRES AS STATED IN THE LAST MESSAGE, &
LOOKING AT THE SQUARE WAVE, THERE IS AN INTERMITTENT DROP OUT ON THE THE RIGHT VERTICAL SIDE OF THE SQUARE WAVE, OR ANOTHER WAY TO SAY IT IS THE RIGHT VERTICAL LINE OF THE SQUARE WAVE IS MISSING INTERMITTENTLY.

THE MAIN QUESTION THIS TIME IS:
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS CAUSING THE INTERMITTENT DROP OUT ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SQUARE WAVE.

THANKS AGAIN JOHN
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Wednesday, March 11th, 2015 AT 8:22 AM

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