Runs bad

Tiny
DK012377
  • MEMBER
  • 1991 HONDA ACCORD
  • 4 CYL
  • 190,000 MILES
The car starts fine, but if you try to drive right after starting it misses and acts like it wants to die, almost like it isnt getting fuel, but then after a second it takes off again. Does this repeated for about 5-10 mins, then is ok. If you let it warm up before trying to drive then it seems to be ok. Sometimes if it doesnt straighten up while driving, you can pull the car over, turn it off, restart it and it drives ok. Sometimes the check engine light comes on and it seems that sometimes when it does the car will start running better. We got a blink code indicating the throttle position sensor but we've tested that ok. Could this be bad EGR valve? And if so how to test it?
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Thursday, December 30th, 2010 AT 12:24 AM

9 Replies

Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
If the blink code indicates a TPS problem how did you test it?
Did you erase the code and retest if the code comes back?
Have you checked the TPS connections and its wiring to the ECM?

It could be a faulty PCM.
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Sunday, January 2nd, 2011 AT 3:12 PM
Tiny
DK012377
  • MEMBER
We tested the connections for the tps, it tested ok, we cleared codes and when it came back on again it still gave the same code, so we replaced tps. Cleared codes and when it lights it still gives the TPS code.
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Sunday, January 2nd, 2011 AT 10:32 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
Was the TPS calibrated when it was replaced?
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Monday, January 3rd, 2011 AT 2:47 PM
Tiny
DK012377
  • MEMBER
I wasnt aware that it needed to be.
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Monday, January 3rd, 2011 AT 5:34 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
Unless you replaced the TPS as an assembly with the throttle body, which would indicate it was calibrated, if not you would have to. It has slotted installation poits therefore it can be installed out of position.

Here are the test for the TPS and since you do not have the test harness, you may backprobe the relevant terminals if it requires testing but use only a fine sharp point or improvise by attaching a needle to the DVOM probes. Wire tapes for holding the needle onto the probes works well.

I would suggest paying attention to item # 3. It mentions replacing the TPS but you should try calibrating the TPS by loosening the holding screws and turning the TPS till it is at 0.5 V when throttle is fully closed.

Note : Ensure the TPS is seated correctly while installing. The tab on the TPS should slot in the the space in the throttle body, which starts when the holding bolts are out of position and TPS has to be turned with a little resistance when it is seated correctly.

CODE 7 - THROTTLE ANGLE SENSOR

1. Turn ignition off. Remove appropriate fuse for 10 seconds to reset ECU. Start engine. Verify if CHECK ENGINE light is flashing Code 7. If Code 7 is present, go to next step. If Code 7 is not present, problem is intermittent. Check connectors at throttle angle sensor and related circuits.

2. Turn ignition off. Disconnect 3-wire connector at throttle angle sensor. Turn ignition on. Measure voltage between Yellow/White (+) and Green/White (-) wires. If voltage is not about 5 volts, go to step 6). If voltage is about 5 volts, turn ignition off. Reconnect sensor connector. Connect ECU Test Harness between ECU and ECU connector. See
Fig. 2.

3. Turn ignition on. Measure voltage between positive terminal D11 and negative terminal D22. See Fig. 3. Voltage should be.5 volt at closed throttle and about 4.5 volts at wide open throttle. Transition between lower and upper voltage specification as throttle is depressed should be smooth.

4. If throttle sensor responds as indicated, substitute a known good ECU. If condition is corrected, replace original ECU. If sensor does not respond as indicated in step 3), replace throttle sensor or repair open or short in Red/Black wire between ECU terminal D11 and throttle sensor. On A/T models, go to step 5).

5. Disconnect 22-wire connector from A/T control unit. If throttle sensor now responds as indicated, replace A/T control unit. If throttle sensor does not respond as indicated, check for open or short in Red/Black wire between ECU terminal D11, throttle angle sensor and A/T control unit.

6. If voltage reading between Yellow/White (+) and Green/White (-) wires in step 2) is not about 5 volts, measure voltage between ground and Yellow/White wire terminal. If voltage is now about 5 volts, repair open in Green/White wire between ECU terminal D22 and throttle sensor. If reading is not about 5 volts, turn ignition off.

7. Connect ECU Test Harness between ECU and ECU connector. Turn ignition on. Measure voltage between terminal D20 and terminal D22. If voltage is about 5 volts, repair open Yellow/White wire between ECU terminal D20 and throttle sensor. If reading is not about 5 volts, substitute a known good ECU. If condition is corrected, replace original ECU.
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Monday, January 3rd, 2011 AT 8:33 PM
Tiny
DK012377
  • MEMBER
Thanks! I will let you know what we find.
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Monday, January 3rd, 2011 AT 9:14 PM
Tiny
DK012377
  • MEMBER
Well it is obvious the problem is definately the tps. As soon as we unplug the harness from it, the engine runs smooth. We are just having a hard time getting back in there to loosen the screws on it to adjust it. ( We took off the throttle body when we changed it because it was riveted on and we busted one of the rivets when we tried putting a slot in it to unscrew it from the tps)
Gonna try again tomorrow during the day (we have a dimly lit unheated garage so its easier to just work in the sunny driveway)
Thanks for the help
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Tuesday, January 4th, 2011 AT 12:21 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
You're welcome.

Space is rather tight for making adjustments. You can remove the throttle body and make adjustment by plgging in the wireharness, use an extension if you can make a makehift 3 wire link and at the same time the voltmeter can be attached to the extension wire to get the reading.
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Tuesday, January 4th, 2011 AT 2:24 PM
Tiny
DK012377
  • MEMBER
Great idea!
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Tuesday, January 4th, 2011 AT 4:35 PM

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