1977 Jeep CJ-5 has no spark. What can it be?

Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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OK--THIS MORNING YOU SENT ME A MESSAGE, TO KEEP THINGS UNDERSTANDABLE AT THIS POST. THIS WAS THE "JEEP" PART OF IT:

I was thinking this morning about the Jeep. At first my brother was having problems with spark. He replaced the coil, cap, rotor and plug wires and said he had spark. Then he claimed it still wouldn't run, just turn over. I told him to spray starting fluid into the carb to see if it would fire. He said "No, it didn't". Now wouldnt that mean that there is still no spark? Because at that point you are eliminating the fuel system right?

I'M 4 HOURS FROM YOUR RIG--STILL MUCH CLOSER THAN YOU!

I DO NOT KNOW THE ABILITIES OF YOUR BROTHER ON THE OTHER END!

I SORTA NEED SOME INPUT FROM THE 1ST TESTS, "THE DOCTOR" ORDERED, AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS VISIT

IN PARTICULAR ******HOW IS HE TESTING FOR SPARK?***** EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING TO TEST FOR IT.

."HAVING SPARK" AND. WHAT IS THE EXACT DC VOLTAGE AT POSITIVE SIDE OF THE COIL ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!

I NEED ACCURATE ANSWERS TO BOTH OF THE ABOVE. THIS IS HOLDING ME UP!

IF WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT EXACTLY TO DO, I WILL SLOW DOWN AND TEACH YOU FELLERS! OR TALK YOU THRU VIA PHONE COMMO

I AM SORTA OBLIGATED AND COMMITTED NOW: SOUTH CAROLINIAN, BROKE JEEP CJ 5, MILITARY. SORTA "ME" IN 1981

WITHOUT ANSWERS--I MIGHT HAVE TO WRITE A FULL CJ SERVICE MANUAL, TO ACCIDENTALLY STUMBLE ONTO YOUR PROBLEM. WITH ANSWERS, I MAY PINPOINT IT QUICK--OR AT LEAST CONCENTRATE ON THAT AREA MORE

THE "STARTER FLUID THING" OR A LITTLE FUEL----IS THE EZIST "QUICK" TEST TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT IS A SPARK OR FUEL PROBLEM. YOU REALLY ONLY HAVE TO TAKE THE BREATHER TOP OFF

GENERALLY SPEAKING---DOING THAT FUEL TEST IF IT CONTINUES TO "DRY TURN OVER" THERE IS "PROBABLY" NO SPARK----IF IT COUGHS, SPITS AND SPUTTERS, HIT A FEW TIMES, OR BACKFIRES. AT MINIMUM SOME SPARK IS PRESENT AND "I" TEND TO RULE OUT A FUEL PROBLEM

THE ABOVE IS NOT "SET IN STONE", BUT WORKS MOST OF THE TIME

THE OTHER IMPORTANT THINGS I NEED TO KNOW

1) IT RAN FINE---WAS PARKED---NOW TURNS OVER WELL (WILL NOT BUST OFF)---AND DOES NOTHING? DID "SOMETHING", BEFORE IT WAS FOOLED WITH?

2) IF YOU CAN---TELL ME EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN FOOLED WITH? WAS THE DISTRIBUTOR ITSELF REMOVED? ADJUSTMENTS, CARB, ALL THE SPARK PLUG WIRES REMOVED. ANYTHING, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO KNEELING AT THE FRONT BUMPER AND PRAYING. ASKING "THE GREAT AIRBORNE RANGER IN THE SKY" TO SEND COMPETENT ASSISTANCE, I.E. "THE BATTALION STALLION"

PLEASE LIST EVERYTHING AND ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.I NEED THE ENTIRE SITUATION, IN ORDER TO FORM A BATTLEPLAN

THE MEDIC

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Friday, January 13th, 2012 AT 5:11 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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IF YOUR DISTRIBUTOR LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THIS---NOTE THE PLASTIC FRONT AND IT ONLY HAS 2 WIRES GOING INTO IT......THIS IS A "PRESTOLITE SYSTEM".......(NOT THE NEWER MOTORCRAFT SYSTEM)

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product__5630649-P_218_R%7CGRPTUNEAMS____?zoneAssigned=1

THIS IS THE CORRECT COIL---INSURE THE PART NUMBER IS CORRECT (DON'T GO BY "LOOKS") THIS IS FROM ADVANCE AUTO

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Ignition-Coil-BWD-Select_3050874-P_190_R%7CGRPTUNEAMS_____

THIS IS THE EXACT SAME COIL FROM AUTO ZONE FOR A '77 CJ PRESTOLITE IGNITION

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Ignition-Coil/1977-Jeep-CJ5/_/N-in9a2Z9n80r?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=IGNITION+COIL&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=111849_0_6007_

BELOW ARE OTHER POSTS YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK THRU---SOME MAY BE 304s BUT THE THEORY IS MOSTLY THE SAME, I DO USE MY 258 AS AN EXAMPLE IN SOME OF THEM

THIS FELLER HAS CREATED 2 POSTS

http://www.2carpros.com/questions/1980-jeep-cj7-v8-wont-start

http://www.2carpros.com/questions/1980-jeep-cj7-timingtuning-problem-with-a

HERE ARE SOME OTHERS

http://www.2carpros.com/questions/1982-jeep-cj7-ignition-problem-spark-distributor-cap

http://www.2carpros.com/questions/1978-jeep-cj7-need-help-getting-started-start-on-troubleshooting

IF YOU LOOK AT THE CJ 7 FORUM PRESENTLY---THERE ARE ONLY 422 QUESTIONS----10 YEARS OF CJ 7 (1976-1986) COMPARE THAT TO "CHEROKEE" OR ANY OTHER MAKE OR MODEL OF CARS AND TRUCKS!----GOING SORTA BY "PROBLEMS" THE CJ 7 HAS A BETTER TRACK RECORD ON THIS SITE

http://www.2carpros.com/makes/jeep/cj7

NOW LOOK AT CJ 5s.....BEEN AROUND FOREVER (1955-1983)---THERE ARE ONLY 109 QUESTIONS......"JEEP WROTE THE BOOK ON FOUR WHEEL DRIVE".....IT PAYS TO STICK WITH THE VERY BEST!

http://www.2carpros.com/makes/jeep/cj5

I'VE ANSWERED MOST OF THE QUESTIONS OF BOTH FORUMS OVER THE LAST 2+ YEARS. SOME HANG WITH ME A WHILE (SEE RESPONSES)

I LIKE HELPING THE CJs, IT'S REWARDING WHEN YOU HEAR POSITIVE FEEDBACK AND KNOW YOU HAVE SAVED SOMEONE A BUNDLE....AND MAKE A NEW BUDDY FROM TIME TO TIME!

I'LL ATTEMPT A FEW MORE PICS FOR TESTING LATER LATER TODAY (MUST DO MY CHORES NOW)

THE MEDIC

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Friday, January 13th, 2012 AT 6:35 PM
Tiny
CHRISTMANBK
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CJ MEDEVAC has done it again! Another Jeep CJ back on the road. We replaced the Ignition Control Module and it fired up and is running like a champ. I want to take the time to thank you sincerley for all the help and all the patience you had with us. For anyone that has a question about Jeeps this is your official site for success. MEDEVAC walked a novice mechanic at best clearly through each step in the troubleshooting process via conference call on the phone to correct a "no spark" issue. Once again MEDEVAC I can't thank you enough and I owe you.

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Tuesday, January 17th, 2012 AT 4:10 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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WHEN YOU GET BACK TO SC, YOU CAN TREAT ME TO A SACKFUL OF KRYSTAL BURGERS. NO MUSTARD. NO PICKLE. CHEESE. ONION. MAYO!

THE CLOSEST ONE TO ME IS ABOUT 50 MILES, THE NEXT 70 MILES

SPEAKING OF MAYO---I KNOW YOUR BROTHER IS SENDING YOU A JAR OF "DUKES", AT MINIMUM, A JAR A MONTH?

GLAD IT IS RUNNING. AS IT SHOULD ALWAYS DO!

HAVE YOU CHECKED OUT THE OTHER MODIFICATION ALBUMS?

GET BACK WITH ME, I'LL SEND YOU THE WIRE DIAGRAMS THAT I IMPROVED BY COLORING THE WIRES. I'M GONNA ALSO TRY TO MAKE A DIAGRAM OR TWO ON SWAPPING OVER THE PRESTOLITE SYSTEM TO THE "MUCH BETTER" AND FEW HEADACHES MOTORCRAFT DISTRIBUTOR AND MODULE. I WANT THE DIAGRAM FOOL PROOF AND INCLUDE REAL PICS OF THE WHAT IS NEEDED FROM THE SALVAGE YARD. EVEN A SPARE MOTORCRAFT MODULE MIGHT STILL BE FOUND AT ONE FOR FREE OR A BUCK OR TWO. THEN ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SWAP YOURS FOR A TEMPORARY "REAL WORLD TEST" (THAT IS ONCE YOU DO UPGRADE)MOST UNFORTUNATLY, MOST OF THE AMC CARS ARE GONE, OR HAVE BEEN CRUSHED, SO A CHEAP PRESTOLITE SPARE IS HARD TO COME BY!

EVEN IF YOU DO NOT SWAP--DO LIKE I DID--HAVE A SPARE DISTRIBUTOR COMPLETE (ROTOR BUTTON AND CAP), MODULE, AND FUEL PUMP IN THE JEEP AT ALL TIMES! WHEN I UPGRADED, I SWAPPED MODULES, AND TOOK OUT THE "SUBSTANDARD PRESTOLITE DIST"---I CAN TRUST THE MOTORCRAFT DIST A LOT BETTER.

ONCE YOU HAVE THE EZ REMOVAL AND INSTALL METHOD, YOU CAN CHANGE THE DIST 5 MINUTES TOPS AND MAKE IT GO, ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, WITH ONLY A 1/2 WRENCH, UNTIL YOU CAN TWEAK THE TIMING IN PERFECT, ONCE YOU GET HOME TO YOUR TIMING LIGHT. THERE'S ONLY ABOUT 3 THINGS YOU MUST REMEMBER. BEFORE YOU SNATCH IT OUT! THIS KEEPS YOU FROM FINDING "TDC"

I APPRECIATE THE COMPLIMENTS. EVEN IF THEY'RE FROM A MARINE! LOL!

KEEP IN TOUCH

THE MEDIC

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Tuesday, January 17th, 2012 AT 7:52 PM
Tiny
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I SORTA GOT A LITTLE CARRIED AWAY WITH THE PRESTOLITE SYSTEM VS: THE MOTORCRAFT IGNITION SYSTEM

'76-'78 USED PRESTOLITE---AND EVEN CJ5s EARLIER THAN THAT

'79 THEY CHANGED TO MOTORCRAFT

THE PRESTOLITE SYSTEMS DID NOT USE A "RESISTANCE WIRE" IN THE "RUN" WIRE. SO THE COIL HAD AN INTERNAL RESISTOR

MOTORCRAFT DID USE A "RESISTANCE WIRE". SO THE COIL USED WAS "FOR EXTERNAL RESISTOR ONLY"

WHEN CONVERTING OVER TO THE MOTORCRAFT, I INSTALLED A "BALLAST RESISTOR" ON MINE. TAKING THE PLACE OF THE "MISSING/ NON-EXISTENT" "RESISTOR WIRE" ON '79 ON UP

I MIGHT COULDA STUCK WITH THE OLD COIL, AND LEFT OUT THE BALLAST RESISTOR, BUT I FIGURED IF I UPDATED THE SYSTEM TO '79. UP DATE IT ALL. BESIDES, IF THE BALLAST RESISTOR DOES BURN OUT, I CAN TEMPORARILY JUMPER WIRE ACROSS THE CONNECTORS (PROVIDING FULL VOLTAGE) TO LIMP MR. JEEP IN.

BELOW IS WHAT A BALLAST RESISTOR LOOKS LIKE, IT JUST LOWERS 12V TO ABOUT 7.5 VOLTS FOR LONGEVITY.

"I" TERMINAL ON THE SOLENOID PROVIDES "FULL BATTERY VOLTAGE" WHILE THE KEY IS IN THE START POSITION, TEMPORARILY NOTHING GETS HURT IF IT IS SUPPLIED WITH FULL BATTERY VOLTAGE, JUST TO LIMP YOU IN USING A JUMPER

1ST PIC IS ACTUALLY ON MY WILLYS JEEP (EXACTLY, AS ON MY 1977 CJ 5)

2ND PIC IS A "PIGGYBACK" FOR BYPASSING THE BALLAST RESISTOR--A JUMPER WIRE WILL DO THE SAME THING

3RD PIC IS THE INPUT WIRE MOVED, IT NOW PIGGYBACKS THE OUTPUT TERMINAL (OR YOU CAN JUST SAY THAT I HAVE CONNECTED THE WIRES)

ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE BALLAST RESISTOR IS A COIL OF RESISTANCE WIRE BETWEEN THE TWO MALE CONNECTORS. SOMETIMES (VERY SELDOM) THEY BURN UP OR JUST SHAKE AND BREAK. THE "PIGGYBACK THING" WILL GET YOU IN, TILL YOU CAN REPLACE IT.

THE RESISTANCE (BALLAST OR RESISTANCE WIRE) IS IN THERE TO KEEP FROM BURNING OUT THE MODULE/ COIL WITH PROLONGED FULL BATTERY VOLTAGE

THE MEDIC

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Thursday, February 23rd, 2012 AT 2:54 AM
Tiny
DNYLRQ
  • 1977 JEEP CJ5
  • 4.2L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
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  • 400,000 MILES
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I have a tram (people mover) that has a 1977 jeep 258 engine in it. I used the engine stamp to determine this much. Its been worked on by so many backyard guys that I have no real idea what to do now.

I have replaced the alternator and battery, along with the battery cables. Ground is good and it was running. Yesterday it stopped running.

It is getting fuel. It will not start with starting fluid.

I have 12v at the positive side of the ignition coil with the key on. Resistances are within spec. The ballast is not being used.

Plugs were new last year and show signs of normal wear.

Plug wires are in good condition and I have verified there is no breaks with my tester. Firing order is correct too.

I replaced the icm since it had some burn spots on the wires. It was the only thing left that I could think of and I could not find a way to test it.

Prestolite ignition.

No vacuum lines have been left on the entire engine, but it had been running though it had been heck to start at times.

I think that's about it. Cap and rotor are in fine condition. Unless the distributor is bad I really I am lost. I am not familiar with older engines, so I could really use the help from you more knowledgeable folks.

Thanks!
Aaron

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Wednesday, January 11th, 2017 AT 10:57 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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Prestolite

Bah-Humbug!

I have a '77 CJ-5 too and a "46 Willys!

I try to answer all of the CJ questions on here, some get by me!

Had to upgrade to Motorcraft (started with the 1979's). I got tired of Prestocrap stuff breaking on me. Distributor wires/ Ignition Module/ Distributor advance/ Etc

Going to send you a picture of my Motorcraft distributor connector (just as an example)

Do a continuity test through your two wires thru the distributor. The are like solid telephone wires that shake and break EZily, Hence my upgrade having stranded wires on a Motorcraft System.

This is your distributor

http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/distributor/cardone-reman-distributor/jeep/cj5/1977/6-cylinders-a-4-2l-1bl/700930_154908_11714/?checkfit=true

What'd you come up with?

Send picture of your rig!

The Medic

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Wednesday, January 11th, 2017 AT 10:57 AM
Tiny
DNYLRQ
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I was talking with a co-worker at the end of the night last night and he said some old fart came by and started asking some questions. He proceeded to hold the ignition coil to the block and did not get any spark from it. He said we should probably replace it. Makes sense, but it seems odd to me that all the resistances would check out as well as the voltage on the terminal. I will give it a try though. Still have to go in to work today to do that. Should I use the ballast when I hook that up or just continue without it like it was?

I have got a couple pictures of the engine bay that I will put here for you. I am still not really sure if it came out of a CJ5, but I will get you a picture of the beast it is in. I am sure it will be a laugh for you!

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Wednesday, January 11th, 2017 AT 10:57 AM
Tiny
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At work, Will respond more when I get home.

Should not need a ballast resistor with prestocrap, Insure you have the correct coil.

Is the Ignition Module grounded good? If there is a connector on that ground (the module ground wire, may have a bullet connector) pull it apart and insure that it is not corroded.

Yep, Even a new module can be bad, have it tested 4 or more times at the auto parts store. If it's bad, test the new one before you leave! Advance Auto Parts has a tester for these.

Results of continuity test thru the distributor wires?

The majority of my pics are at home, I'll post some when I get there.

The Medic

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Wednesday, January 11th, 2017 AT 10:57 AM
Tiny
DNYLRQ
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Hey medic, it turns out the old farts were on the money. Despite the electrical tests checking out, replacing the coil worked. At least I will know what to check for when the thing breaks down next week lol. I appreciate you taking the time to get right with me on this. Ill post up the pick of our tram for ya too. Thanks so much

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Wednesday, January 11th, 2017 AT 10:57 AM

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