Sudden RPM surges - TPS issue

Tiny
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I did a smoke test and no smoke leaked. I also covered the throttle body air intake port and engine stalled. I've cleaned the MAS about 6 or 7 times in the last year. The fuel pump, strainer and filter were replaced last summer, I'm guessing fuel pressure is good. I also put Lucas fuel injection treatment in every few months. The grommet for the PCV valve I've read is notorious for not fitting good. I've had the car 2 1/2 years and never changed the valve or grommet. How do I get to it?
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Monday, November 18th, 2019 AT 10:51 PM
Tiny
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Here's the videos of how it sounds running you asked for. The dashboard video is it starting up after sitting 9 hours in 60ish degree weather. The second video is after driving it 35 minutes home. The rattling noise in the engine is the alternator, its always been like that.
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Monday, November 18th, 2019 AT 10:59 PM
Tiny
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Do you have a scan tool that you can read what the IAC counts are?

Roy
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Tuesday, November 19th, 2019 AT 10:27 AM
Tiny
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No I don't. I have an ODB2 reader. I'll see if AutoZone has it.
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Wednesday, November 20th, 2019 AT 4:58 AM
Tiny
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Okay, keep me updated.

Roy
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Wednesday, November 20th, 2019 AT 5:00 AM
Tiny
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Hi Roy, I hope the new year is being good to you.
I did 2 smoke tests to checked for vacuum leaks and took off the air intake duct then covered the the front of the throttle body and the car stalled immediately. No vac leaks. Cleaned the MAS and ran codes, the only code is 574 (engine cooling fan fault). I can't find the PCV, it may have been eliminated when the hi-performance cool air induction set was installed. As for fuel pressure a new fuel pump, strainer and filter were installed about 8 months ago and the Schrader valve shoots a tall strong blast of gas. Should I buy a noid light and IAC test kit. Would that give the IAC count you asked for? I'm attaching a video of the car warm at idle & one of the car starting after a night sitting in the cold.
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Sunday, January 12th, 2020 AT 1:47 AM
Tiny
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Okay, I attached the PCV location for you.

I would replace the IAC valve. It cannot be cleaned as the part that sticks is not available to clean.

The TPS has no effect on the high RPM. Make sure the voltage is set at.5 to.75 volts at closed throttle.

Roy

NOTE: The curb and fast idle speeds are controlled by the Power-train Control Module (PCM) and Idle Air Control (IAC) valve assembly. The IAC valve is not adjustable. A large increase or decrease in closed plate airflow from the calibrated level will not allow effective idle speed control.
The throttle body incorporates an orifice in the throttle plate controlling idle airflow as part of the sludge tolerant design.

Throttle Body Assembly Decal Location
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Throttle bodies with sludge tolerant design are identified with a yellow/black decal. This decal warns that the throttle plate stop screw must not be adjusted counterclockwise (backed off), as this will not reduce the engine speed but may cause the throttle plate to stick in the bore. Backing out the screw may be required if the throttle body has been previously serviced (a plug in the throttle plate orifice may be present), or the plate stop screw tampered with (TP Self-Test output out of range). The decal also warns that the throttle body must NOT be cleaned inside the bore, as this cleaning will impair the sensitive coating. The sludge accumulation will not affect the idle air flow. The cleaning procedure for the IAC valve still applies.

REMEMBER

A change in idle airflow can occur not only at the throttle body but other areas as well. You should enter the idle speed procedure only after other possible causes in the following areas are eliminated.
Contamination within the idle speed control device
Lack of fuel system control (excessively rich or lean)
Throttle sticking or binding
Engine not reaching operating temperature
Incorrect ignition timing
Incorrect or clogged PCV system
Vacuum leaks (intake manifold, vacuum hoses, vacuum reservoirs, power brake booster etc.

VERIFY

Transmission is in Park (A/T), or Neutral (M/T)
Parking brake is applied (automatic brake release disconnected where applicable)
Wheels blocked
Engine at operating temperature
Proper fuel pressure and no exhaust smoke
Correct and clean PCV system
Heater, A/C, and other accessories Off
Ignition timing is set to specification
EEC-IV diagnostics have been performed and vehicle malfunction indicated diagnostic trouble codes have been resolved.

PROCEDURE

STEP 1
With the engine Off, connect a tachometer according to manufacturers instructions. Disconnect the negative (-) terminal of the battery for 5 minutes, then reconnect it.

STEP 2
Start the engine and allow the idle to stabilize for two minutes. Goose the accelerator, and let the engine return to idle. Lightly depress and release the accelerator, then let the engine idle.

STEP 3
If the engine does not idle properly, proceed with this procedure.
NOTE: In some cases, even if the idle speed is OK, proceed with this procedure if the customer's complaint persists (idle air control duty cycle may be out of range).

STEP 4
Turn the engine Off, and install a 0.025 in feeler gauge between plate stop screw and the throttle lever.

STEP 5
Start engine and run at 2500 rpm for 30 seconds, then return to idle.

STEP 6
Place the transmission in Park (A/T), or Neutral (M/T).

Typical Throttle Return Screw Location
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STEP 7

Using a tachometer, verify idle speed is 704 +/-10 (A/T), or 640 +/-10 (M/T) rpm.
NOTE: Before proceding with this procedure, shut the engine Off, wait ten seconds. Re-start engine and recheck idle for two minutes. This eliminates the possibility of entering part throttle mode.

Throttle Plate Orifice Plug
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RPM TOO LOW

a. DO NOT clean the throttle body, check for the plate orifice plug.
IF NO PLUG, turn the screw clockwise to the desired rpm.

IF PLUG from previous service, remove and adjust the screw in either direction as required. Screw must be in contact with the lever pad after adjustment.

RPM TOO HIGH

a. Turn Off the engine.
B. Disconnect air cleaner hose.
C. Temporarily block the throttle plate orifice with tape. If the orifice already has a plug from previous service, proceed to Step (e).
D. Restart the engine, and check idle speed, using a tachometer.
NOTE: Vehicles with Mass Air Flow Sensors, reconnect the air intake duct hose before checking idle rpm. If the engine stalls, crack open the plate stop screw, DO NOT over adjust.
E. If rpm continues to be fast, Run Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test.
F. If rpm drops to the the value in Step 7 or lower, or the engine stalls, turn the engine Off, disconnect the air cleaner hose, and remove tape from throttle plate.
G. Install the proper color coded orifice plug, according to the throttle plate orifice size.
H. Reconnect the air cleaner hose, and Start the engine. Check the idle rpm using a tachometer. Turn the plate stop screw clockwise to the nominal rpm +/- 25 rpm shown in Step 7.

STEP 8
Shut the engine Off. Remove the feeler gauge between between the plate stop screw and throttle lever.

STEP 9
Start the engine, and allow the idle to stabilize for two minutes. Goose the accelerator, and let the engine return to idle. Lightly depress and release the accelerator, then let engine idle. If idle problem still exists, check for other possible causes.

STEP 10
Run the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test for proper TP code output.

STEP 11
For Automatic Overdrive (AOD) transmission equipped vehicle, check and adjust (if necessary) the throttle valve pressure.
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+1
Sunday, January 12th, 2020 AT 10:30 AM
Tiny
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I just saw. This email you sent on January 12, 2020. It was in my spam box. I was checking the spam box before deleting them. Thanks for the diagram of PCV location. I'll check tomorrow.
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Tuesday, February 11th, 2020 AT 11:10 PM
Tiny
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You are welcome.

Always glad to help.

Roy
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Tuesday, February 11th, 2020 AT 11:18 PM
Tiny
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I attached a picture of where my PCV should be but its not there. I found it in a Hayne repair manual for my car. It should attach to a tube from the oil filler neck to the cold air induction near the throttle body. I've been running my car almost 3 years without one. The one that's made for my engine won't fit into the cold air induction tube a prior owner put on. I'm thinking of finding a PCV that will fit on even if I have to rig one up. What do you think?
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Wednesday, February 12th, 2020 AT 6:09 PM
Tiny
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What is the complete VIN number of your car?
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Wednesday, February 12th, 2020 AT 6:49 PM
Tiny
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VIN: 1FALP42T5SF105453.
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Wednesday, February 12th, 2020 AT 7:50 PM
Tiny
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You do not have the PCV in the passenger valve cover at the rear?

Roy
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Wednesday, February 12th, 2020 AT 9:04 PM
Tiny
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No PCV on passenger valve cover. Here's a video, am I not seeing it?
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Thursday, February 13th, 2020 AT 1:41 AM
Tiny
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If they eliminated the PCV, that will damage the motor.

I would check the actual fuel pressure to be sure it is in spec.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Also, I am concerned the cat converter may be an issue as well. If it is partially clogged, it will cause surging.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-catalytic-converter

Roy
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Thursday, February 13th, 2020 AT 8:40 AM
Tiny
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I read a few days ago how not having a PCV or a bad one will damage and shorten the life engine. Since then I've been searching for it hard. That's why I bought one that will fit in the area it needs to be and fit in the tube in my engine. If I find for sure there is no PCV I'm going to see if I can find a stock air filter housing and duct work in a junk yard.
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Thursday, February 13th, 2020 AT 8:12 PM
Tiny
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Correct.

That is something I would do.

The PCV will not cause the surging.

Can you check the actual fuel pressure? That will cause surging.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Roy
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Thursday, February 13th, 2020 AT 9:06 PM
Tiny
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I'll go to AutoZone tomorrow and see if they have the test gauge.
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Saturday, February 15th, 2020 AT 5:21 AM
Tiny
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Keep me updated.

Roy
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Saturday, February 15th, 2020 AT 5:31 AM
Tiny
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Hi Roy. I hope you and your family are all doing well during this pandemic.I know it has been a while, I got frustrated and gave up trying to figure out what was wrong with the car. There was no PCV valve so I put one in where it should have went, the RPM's are still surging. I recently noticed that a digital OBD reader will not start the test in my car. But the OBD reader that you have to count the beeps on for the codes does work on my car. I'm thinking it's the ECU. What do you think?
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Sunday, June 14th, 2020 AT 11:06 PM

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