Starter continues to run

Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
  • 1975 JEEP CJ5
  • 4.2L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 89,000 MILES
I am restoring this vehicle. I have had the vehicle a little over a month now, spent the last few weeks researching the components in the jeep. It is a '1975 CJ5 with a 258ci I6 from a 1978 CJ5, with a 1978 carter 1 bbl carburetor. I have replaced the solenoid, cables, ignition switch, and other non-electrical parts.
Here is my problem, when I turn the key and engage the starter, it continues to run even after the key is off. I have to remove the cable from the battery in order to get it to stop.
I swapped out (reversed) the cables on the solenoid. The same thing happens but, if I tap the solenoid it stops. Thing is, if I bump the solenoid, the starter starts turning the motor over again. I bumped the solenoid again and it stops.
Bad solenoid? What's your opinion, suggestion?
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Sunday, June 12th, 2016 AT 1:55 PM

38 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Two possibilities. The high-current contacts could be welded together from repeated arcing or the coil in it could be warped from being previously overheated. Those solenoids cannot remain engaged for more than twenty to thirty seconds at a time without time in between to cool down. If someone had a starting problem and continued to crank for a long time, a warped coil can make the plunger stick.

You could also have the wrong solenoid. There were three different designs. One did not use the second small terminal. One had the second small terminal for the neutral safety switch circuit. A third circuit used that second terminal to bypass the ignition resistor for breaker point systems. One of those can become energized by the voltage in the ignition circuit. That current flow is not sufficient to make a magnetic field large enough to engage the plunger, but once the plunger has been engaged through the ignition switch, that smaller current can be sufficient to hold the plunger engaged. Tapping on the solenoid can shock it enough that with the help of the weak magnetic field, the plunger might move enough for the contact disc to turn on and the starter cranks the engine.

If you have that second smaller terminal, unplug it, then see if the solenoid still engages with the ignition switch.
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Sunday, June 12th, 2016 AT 2:41 PM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
Right now I have the dash board out of the jeep so I can check all the wires and such. Does the ignition switch have to be grounded? Is it possible that this can this cause this issue?
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Sunday, June 12th, 2016 AT 7:23 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
Go with the solenoid!

No idea of its age or hard life. What is $15.00-$25.00 spent on the one you love?

Return with good news or we'll start breaking out wire diagrams

Insure the battery cable and accessories are on one big post all together (A in picture on my Jeeps)

Insure the starter cable is on the other big post- all by itself (B in my picture)

(which big post does not matter, as long as the starter is all by itself on one of them)

I like my Positive cable and accessories on the big post closest to the "s" terminal so that I can crank/ bump the the starter with a screwdriver if need be

The one from the ignition switch will so to small terminal "s" on the solenoid (location C in my last picture), the other wire goes to "I" (which feeds the coil while cranking)(D in pic)

Points?/ Prestolite Ign?/ Other?

Any other non-OEM modifications on your baby?

Here's a picture of my 1977's solenoid.

The Medic
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Sunday, June 12th, 2016 AT 8:42 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Not likely. I am going to have to dig up a wiring diagram, but from memory of other systems, there is usually one set of switch contacts that do ground one wire during cranking. That is to turn on the red "brake" warning light for the bulb-check function. That does not have anything to do with the ignition or cranking systems.
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Sunday, June 12th, 2016 AT 8:44 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
Roger Doc

That "check" runs through the proportional valve, the "brake light" (in the cluster sort of dims and returns as the engine rotates). I have been told that some inspection points check that on other vehicles, but have no clue that the "sorta flashing" brake light during starting on a Jeep CJ proves the system is fine. The same light lets you know if the emergency brake is on.

The Medic
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Sunday, June 12th, 2016 AT 8:54 PM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
I am planning on changing out the solenoid today.
I want to add pictures to this post, but it seems like it will not let me.
No other non-OEM's to the motor that I can see. The PO did put on homemade shackles, new ones are on order now.
I am planning lots of new things for this baby, disc brakes, new lift or maybe SOA. Mostly bolt on stuff.
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Monday, June 13th, 2016 AT 7:55 AM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
Pictures of old solenoid.
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Monday, June 13th, 2016 AT 12:28 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
It looks to be wired correctly

The only other possibilities (if the new one don't fix it) Might be a bad ignition switch or a "hot wire" somehow connected or crossed up with "S-WIRE"

Yours being just like factory (positive battery cable and accessories on the right side (bottom in your pic) Starter on the left by itself (top in your pic)

I have mine opposite, you can see my reason in the 1st pic

In your pic on the accessory side (big post on bottom in pic) Looks like some of your wires are fraying out of the "stake-ons"!

The glimpse of the front of your distributor tells me that you have "Prestolite Ignition"

Let us know if the "Solenoid" fixes you up!

Keep shootin' questions if you have any.

The Medic
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Monday, June 13th, 2016 AT 4:35 PM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
New solenoid, wired like you described. I've traced the ignition switch wire to the "s" terminal. I also traced the "I" terminal wire to the ignition coil.
Well, same result. Ugh! But, I have an idea. The ignition switch is new, had to replace it because I didn't have a key for the old one. The connector prongs on the back of the new switch are a little different than the new one. The only thing different is the ground prong, bench the earlier question of the switch needing to be grounded.
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Monday, June 13th, 2016 AT 6:41 PM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
Pics of old key switch and new switch
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Monday, June 13th, 2016 AT 6:45 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
I found the same as your old one at rockauto.com

I found it under a 1974 cj-5

Here's the link

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=936689&cc=1180583&jsn=422

It may be that you can find it local if you go with a '74

Also insure that your starter cable (metal below the ring) is not touching "metal" on the bottom of the solenoid- kinda looks close in the pic

I'd say the other terminal is necessary/ 'specially if this issue did not arise until you tried the new switch

Thanks for the pics they help us a lot! Not too many people post 'em for us.

Link below is a quick way to stop the forever cranking/ even when this is fixed, the solenoid could stick in the future (and they sometimes do) and you are sure not to have a 1/2 wrench real handy. Also makes for a quick disconnect when you are working on electrical stuff. There are other styles. This one is EZ and cheap.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/autocraft-top-mount-battery-terminal-quick-disconnect-switch-20138/6280536-P?searchTerm=battery+disconnect

Your turn!

The Medic
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Monday, June 13th, 2016 AT 8:04 PM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
Thank you for the link on the '74 key switch.
I'll check the starter cable for possible contact like you mention.
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Monday, June 13th, 2016 AT 8:21 PM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
Medevac- when did you find that link to rockauto for the key switch?
I'm searching it and the site can't find that part.
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Tuesday, June 14th, 2016 AT 5:49 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
Let's see if this one works

Last switch in the "block"

If this don't work, I'll find it after I get home

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/jeep,1974,cj5,4.2l+258cid+l6,1180583,electrical-switch+&+relay,ignition+starter+switch,4700?a=Referer+www.google.com+URL+%2F

The Medic
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Tuesday, June 14th, 2016 AT 9:15 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
1/2 did not link/ paste the whole thing on a new tab/ it works that way!

The Medic
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Tuesday, June 14th, 2016 AT 9:17 AM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
Found it, thank you! New ignition switch is on the way.
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Tuesday, June 14th, 2016 AT 10:13 AM
Tiny
KEN
  • ADMIN
Please let us know what happens, we are here to help
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Tuesday, June 14th, 2016 AT 8:29 PM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
New ignition switch arrived yesterday, installed this morning and same result.
I'm waiting on the new solenoid to arrive now, hopefully it will solve the issue.
I am going to remove the starter, clean it, take it to have it checked, and rebuilt if needed.
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Saturday, June 18th, 2016 AT 6:34 AM
Tiny
KEN
  • ADMIN
Have you replaced the battery? I know it sounds weird but when the battery starts to become weak when the starter is engaged, it doesn't have enough amperage to disengage the starter, please try a new battery.

Here is a guide to help you.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/replacing-car-battery

Let me know what you find

Best, Ken

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Saturday, June 18th, 2016 AT 8:44 AM
Tiny
SPITNHIT
  • MEMBER
Battery is brand new, I will put it on to charge though.
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Saturday, June 18th, 2016 AT 8:52 AM

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