1996 Plymouth Voyager Error Code 11

Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
  • 1996 PLYMOUTH VOYAGER
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 175,000 MILES
Van generates a code 11, Replaces Crank sensor with no positive result. Runs rough with foot on the gas and sputters now and then on idle. Odd part is with A/C on and the check engine light on. It runs normal.
Wondering to replace Cam sensor. But they seem to be hard to find. What are your recommendations.
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 9:53 AM

15 Replies

Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER
Rescanned the computer again might be a different code/s this time
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 10:09 AM
Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
Reset the Computer, even Replaced it with same type from a parts van. Code not present until several minutes of very bad Idle. Smell of gas during bad idle tells me it is not firing some cylinders. Once error 11 light turns on it will continue to run bad (not as Bad) until you turn A/c on. Would the A/c advance the timing enough to make a difference. The timing belt was replaced 3 months ago.
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 10:20 AM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER
Let me ask this-How are you retrieving the code/s?

DTC 11 Engine has not been cranked since battery was disconnected. This code came from a 95-down, you should be getting a P -code/s
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 10:27 AM
Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
By turning the key to on (not start) 5 times. Generates a 12 (battery), 11 (No crank reference), and 55 (end code)
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 10:30 AM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER
Go ahead and check the Cam Sensor

11 IGN reference signal.
12 Battery input to PCM disconnected during last 50 key starts.
13 MAP sensor pneumatic circuit.
14 MAP sensor electrical circuit.
15 Vehicle speed/distance sensor.
16 Open or shorted condition detected in knock sensor circuit.
17 Engine running too cool.
21 Oxygen sensor circuit.
22 Coolant temperature sensor circuit.
23 Intake air temp. Sensor voltage high.
24 Throttle position sensor.
25 IAC motor driven circuit.
27 Fault in injector driver interface circuit.
31 Purge solenoid circuit.
32 Fault in EGR diagnostics.
34 Speed control solenoid circuits.
33 A/C cutout relay circuit.
35 Fan control relay circuit.
41 Charging system excess or no field current.
42 ASD relay circuit.
43 Fault in ignition coil control circuit.
44 Battery Temp Voltage.
45 Overdrive Solenoid open or shorted
46 Battery voltage too high.
47 Battery voltage too low.
51 Oxygen feedback system stuck at lean position.
52 Oxygen feedback system stuck at rich position.
53 Internal logic module problems.
54 No cam position signal.
55 Completion of fault code display.
62 Indicates unsuccessful attempt to update EMR mileage.
63 Unsuccessful attempt to write to an EEPROM location by the controller.
64 Methanol sensor voltage too low.
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 10:39 AM
Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
I am getting mixed ideas on where this sensor is located. In my hand I have a sensor like the crank sensor but all the reference tools except auto zone guide are telling me it is part of the Distributor.

The auto zone guide states the location: Under hood, passenger side, upper engine area, between cylinder heads, mounted behind the power steering pump reservoir.

The others state: Inside the distributor, the distributor has two sensors, one acts as a camshaft position sensor, the other as a crankshaft position sensor.

I do know that I have a Hall Sensor in the Distributor and not the 2 photo cells that they seem to mention.

So, Do I replace the Hall sensor in the distributor or the one in that is in my hand?
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 2:29 PM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER
The hall effect sensor in the distributor
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 2:34 PM
Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
Ok, I was leaning that Direction myself. I will run out and grab one.
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 2:37 PM
Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
I cant find anybody that has one. All replacement distributors don't come with the module so they must sell them. I don't know
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 3:35 PM
Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
I found one on a new Distributor. Installed it and it still runs rough when you hit the gas with any pressure. With new crank sensor, and distributor with hall cam sensor, still produces a 12, 11, 55 code on the check engine light.

I did wiggle all wires I could get my hands on while it was trying to keep running to test for bad wires.

Any ideas?

Addition: when it died at autozone and needed a tow back they scanned a P1391 code or CMP or CKP signal

And recently it will only start reluctantly with foot 50% on the gas pedal. Then it will idle fine untill I hit the gas or about 30 seconds until it seems to jump all around and stall.
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Thursday, October 21st, 2010 AT 10:13 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Hi guys. This problem sounds suspiciously like what I just solved on my '88 Grand Caravan after putting up with it for 11 months. It finally started acting up more often than the couple of times per week; in fact, it left me sit on the side of the road. That was the first time I caught it with no spark. Had been driving with a fuel pressure gauge attached, and that showed no problem while driving.

It ended up being the ignition coil. Weird thing was it acted much worse on hot days and after driving for a mile or more, AND, it got worse after replacing the 12 year old spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor! I opened up the plug gap a little which made the coil work harder to fire them. That should have been the clue right there but I kept driving for another week until it died completely.

Here's the other weird thing. On one of those rare days where it died every few hundred yards, then would restart after a couple of minutes, the engine would cut out completely at anything over three quarter throttle, (just like you turned the ignition switch off), then would pick back up when releasing the throttle. As it got worse, it would cut out at half throttle, then quarter throttle. Took a half hour to get up a steep hill close to home. Every time it stalled, I jumped out and bypassed the starter relay under the hood so I could check for spark, and it was always there, and of course then it would always start again. Nursed it home and could duplicate it in the yard. When raising rpm slowly, I could reach any speed, but when snapping the throttle open quickly, as you would do when pulling out to pass someone, the engine completely cut out, and it would cut back in when releasing the throttle. Acted exactly like a worn or disconnected accelerator pump on a carburetor. All I could see on a scanner was the injector pulse width was changing from 3.7 milliseconds to over 10 milliseconds when I snapped the throttle.

I can only guess that under heavy acceleration, more spark voltage was needed to fire the plugs, (normally a richer mixture is easier to fire), and either the coil wasn't delivering that needed voltage or the Engine Computer was shutting the spark down to protect itself. Regardless, with a used coil, it's been running perfectly for over 200 miles. Funny thing is, the fuel pressure bleeds down when sitting and yet the engine starts instantly. I figured the injectors were leaking and the engine was starting on the fuel that puddled in the intake, but sometimes it takes a few seconds for the pressure to come up yet the engine runs fine. Hope I'm not due for a pump failure.

Your fault code 11 would indicate there is something else going on. I had my distributor down to the sensor but they give so little trouble so I didn't change it. The other clue was when the engine would not start, the scanner showed the automatic shutdown relay was commanded on during cranking. That meant the computer had to be getting the pulses from the sensor. What sent me there on a wild goose chase is there are two different sensors. One is used only below 1200 rpm so I thought that might have something to do with the engine cutting out above a certain speed. In my case there were no codes so the problem had to be in something not monitored by the computer, and that includes the coil secondary.

The whole purpose of this sad tale is to point out that the fault code might be misleading although I don't see how it would set due to a bad coil. Had to reply though because it sure sounds like what I had for symptoms.

Caradiodoc
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Thursday, October 21st, 2010 AT 3:17 PM
Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
I at first suspected a fuel filter about a month back. I replaced it (got to love Chrysler for that location) and things were good for about a week

I read somewhere that a cracked flexplate would cause the same issue but I would believe you would have additional problems in gear than N or P.

I may just replace the coil. Like you I just changed the plugs, wires, cap and rotor when I did the fuel filter.

I will post results.
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Thursday, October 21st, 2010 AT 4:59 PM
Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
Well, I replaced the coil. When I went to start it. It was like it was before. However shortly after when the check engine light came on I was able to stabilize
the idle. I figured this was in part to the "limp home mode" the Computer initializes when there is a major failure. So I ran the engine up to temp to let the battery charge up a bit and turned it off and disconnected the battery. About 30 min later I connected the battery and it seems to run fine. I took it up the street to put some gas in it with no issues.

So, did the coil fix it and the plugs were fouled up a bit from all the rough idle troubleshooting, or did I move the right wire. Either way. It is running and if it fails again, I believe I know where to look.

Thank you all for your input.
JRD100
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Friday, October 22nd, 2010 AT 10:20 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Well, I'll hold my breath for now but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. The bad thing about intermittent problems is you only know it's not solved when the problem occurs again. When it doesn't act up, you don't know if it's fixed or just waiting to act up again at the most inopportune time.

Caradiodoc
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Friday, October 22nd, 2010 AT 2:49 PM
Tiny
JRD100
  • MEMBER
Well, It happened again. On the way home from work.

I have 2 choices I guess. Replace the wire harness or replace the van.

Cash is alittle tight for another payment.

The only harness for the 3.0 I can find is a little over 1k shipped. Do you know of any other suppliers?
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Friday, November 5th, 2010 AT 10:06 AM

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