1999 Plymouth Breeze Idle Issue

Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
  • 1999 PLYMOUTH BREEZE
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 80,000 MILES
1999 plymouth breeze 2.0 liter with 80k miles runs fine under load. Once it's warm and at idle, it dies. It does start right back up but if you are not constantly on the gas, it will die. Mechanic said it was the timing so we just replaced the timing belt and timing belt tensioner and the car still stalls at idle. Any ideas as to what the issue is?
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Saturday, January 26th, 2008 AT 8:26 PM

39 Replies

Tiny
BLACKOP555
  • EXPERT
First you should try some new plugs and wires, that should clear it up.
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Saturday, January 26th, 2008 AT 8:41 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
Plugs have been cleaned and all is in great shape. The mechanic put it on the machine and the timing was what was fluctuating. When you're driving it there's no problem at all, it's just when you come to a stop and are at idle that it starts. Then it's only when the car is warm. When it's cold it has no issues.
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Saturday, January 26th, 2008 AT 9:10 PM
Tiny
BLACKOP555
  • EXPERT
Alright, have you clean out the throttle body and IAC module ports?

Also verify that the exhaust system isnt plugged.
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Saturday, January 26th, 2008 AT 9:48 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
Thanks for the info. We'll hit that tomorrow. We're very frustrated right now. I would have thought that the mechanic would have hit on all these things on his big machine before the timing. I'll let you know what we find out.
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Saturday, January 26th, 2008 AT 10:01 PM
Tiny
BLACKOP555
  • EXPERT
Also I would like you to take a gander at the MAF sensor if you have one.

Id also like to hit on the points of a vaccum leak, that can cause poor idle when warmed up but not when cold occasionally.

I wouldnt be leaning towards injectors quite yet.

But defineteley check the vaccum. If you need help doing so let me know.
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Saturday, January 26th, 2008 AT 10:09 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
Will do. I'll be on again tomorrow and let you know how we're making out. I really appreciate the suggestions!

Thanks Again! :D
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Saturday, January 26th, 2008 AT 10:52 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
OK, IAC has been cleaned and still the same issue. No vacuum leak. Frustration level is closing in on RED and I'm afraid he's gonna blow! :) Any other ideas, or suggestions?
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Thursday, February 7th, 2008 AT 10:26 AM
Tiny
BLACKOP555
  • EXPERT
Next move is to replace the pcv valve, it is cheap, also the EGR valve and ports may be plugged with carbon and need cleaning.
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Thursday, February 7th, 2008 AT 4:44 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
Hi,

One step ahead here. PCV was replaced. EGR was checked and cleaned and appears to be working fine. Throttle Positioning sensor was also replaced. Any other ideas?
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Thursday, February 7th, 2008 AT 5:33 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
One more thing. The car isn't throwing any codes either. No check engine light and the OBD II that we rented shows nothing wrong.
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Thursday, February 7th, 2008 AT 5:35 PM
Tiny
BLACKOP555
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The EGR may have to relearn the closed position. It would have to be taken in to a dealership for that.
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Thursday, February 7th, 2008 AT 7:12 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
Can you explain a bit further on the EGR?
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Thursday, February 7th, 2008 AT 9:22 PM
Tiny
BLACKOP555
  • EXPERT
What would you like to know about the EGR valve?
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Friday, February 8th, 2008 AT 7:14 AM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
You spoke about the EGR having to "relearn" the closed position. Would this also have to be done if it is replaced with a new one? Is there a way to "reset" with an OBD II scanner? Is there a way to get the EGR "fixed" without having to go to a dealer?
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Friday, February 8th, 2008 AT 9:22 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
Hi,

Me again, ok, the egr is fine. We finally got the bugger to throw a code fromthe OBDII. It is a P0172. To verify that it was an O2 sensor, we reset the computer and unplugged the sensor. Same code. I had a similar issue with my jeep last summer and it ended up we had to replace the computer. I'm wondering if this could be the same thing. Now my question is this. Can we pick up a computer from the junkyard and put it in without having to take it to the dealer to be reset? If we make sure to pull it from the same make and model car? Will we screw up the car we have by removing the computer and then if it's not that, putting the same computer back in?
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Monday, February 11th, 2008 AT 9:15 AM
Tiny
BLACKOP555
  • EXPERT
Try switching 2 of your o2 sensors around, if the problem follows the o2 sensor it is bad, if not your engine could be running lean causing the code, just the other code isn't showing up.

Do you have a coded key or theft system? If so and you put in the new brain take it to the dealer. If you take the computer out and put it back in it wont screw it up, you may have to have everything reset and re programed though.
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Monday, February 11th, 2008 AT 12:17 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
Thanks for the tips. We'll try switching the O2 sensors and hope that that's what the issue is. I really don't want to think about messing with the computer.
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Monday, February 11th, 2008 AT 6:53 PM
Tiny
ROBIN61
  • MEMBER
Question, breeze only has 2 sensors and they're both different. I don't think we can switch them. Do you happen to know the measurement specs for them so we can test them to see if they're ok before replacing them do you?
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Tuesday, February 12th, 2008 AT 8:16 AM
Tiny
BLACKOP555
  • EXPERT
Sorry but I dont know the exact specs, check the wiring harness for cuts and cracks follow it all the way up to the engine and check to see if its plugged in also.
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Tuesday, February 12th, 2008 AT 4:34 PM
Tiny
BLACKOP555
  • EXPERT
Try this to test them:

The engine must first be fully warm. If you have a defective thermostat, this test may not be possible due to a minimum temperature required for closed loop operation. Attach the positive lead of a high impedence DC voltmeter to the Oxygen sensor output wire. This wire should remain attached to the computer. You will have to back probe the connection or use a jumper wire to get access. The negative lead should be attached to a good clean ground on the engine block or accessory bracket. Cheap voltmeters will not give accurate results because they load down the circuit and absorb the voltage that they are attempting to measure. A acceptable value is 1,000,000 ohms/volt or more on the DC voltage. Most (if not all) digital voltmeters meet this need. Few (if any) non-powered analog (needle style) voltmeters do. Check the specs for your meter to find out. Set your meter to look for 1 volt DC. Many late model cars use a heated O2 sensor. These have either two or three wires instead of one. Heated sensors will have 12 volts on one lead, ground on the other, and the sensor signal on the third. If you have two or three wires, use a 15 or higher volt scale on the meter until you know which is the sensor output wire. When you turn the key on, do not start the engine. You should see a change in voltage on the meter in most late model cars. If not, check your connections. Next, check your leads to make sure you won't wrap up any wires in the belts, etc. Then start the engine. You should run the engine above 2000 rpm for two minutes to warm the O2 sensor and try to get into closed loop. Closed loop operation is indicated by the sensor showing several cross counts per second. It may help to rev the engine between idle and about 3000 rpm several times. The computer recognizes the sensor as hot and active once there are several cross counts. You are looking for voltage to go above and below 0.45 volts. If you see less than 0.2 and more than 0.7 volts and the value changes rapidly, you are through, your sensor is good. If not, is it steady high (> 0.45) near 0.45 or steady low (< 0.45). If the voltage is near the middle, you may not be hot yet. Run the engine above 2000 rpm again. If the reading is steady low, add richness by partially closing the choke or adding some propane through the air intake. Be very careful if you work with any extra gasoline, you can easily be burned or have an explosion. If the voltage now rises above 0.7 to 0.9, and you can change it at will by changing the extra fuel, the O2 sensor is usually good. If the voltage is steady high, create a vacuum leak. Try pulling the PCV valve out of it's hose and letting air enter. You can also use the power brake vacuum supply hose. If this drives the voltage to 0.2 to 0.3 or less and you can control it at will by opening and closing the vacuum leak, the sensor is usually good. If you are not able to make a change either way, stop the engine, unhook the sensor wire from the computer harness, and reattach your voltmeter to the sensor output wire. Repeat the rich and lean steps. If you can't get the sensor voltage to change, and you have a good sensor and ground connection, try heating it once more. Repeat the rich and lean steps. If still no voltage or fixed voltage, you have a bad sensor. If you are not getting a voltage and the car has been running rich lately, the sensor may be carbon fouled. It is sometimes possible to clean a sensor in the car. Do this by unplugging the sensor harness, warming up the engine, and creating a lean condition at about 2000 rpm for 1 or 2 minutes. Create a big enough vacuum leak so that the engine begins to slow down. The extra heat will clean it off if possible. If not, it was dead anyway, no loss. In either case, fix the cause of the rich mixture and retest. If you don't, the new sensor will fail.

Another note if you havent had your ignition coil and pick up coil checked, also the ignition module if its a distributed model this could cause the problem

YOu may even have a MAP sensor that is bad, try unplugging it and see if the problem goes away or test it with a hand held vaccum guage.
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Tuesday, February 12th, 2008 AT 4:38 PM

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