No start

Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 2012 VOLKSWAGEN
  • 2.0L
  • 4 CYL
  • TURBO
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 75,000 MILES
The car was doing fine and then one day would not start after driving. I have checked the codes at a shop and they said p0016. The problem is I have checked the chain and guides all look good. Replaced the cam position sensor and spark plugs they were bad looking. I am getting spark that I know of and can smell aroma of fuel on them when removed. Please help. I do not think it is timing.
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Monday, January 16th, 2017 AT 5:25 PM

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Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
P0016 - Cam and Crank correlation out of specification. This code is a PIA at times. It basically says that the camshaft and crank are out of time with each other but that difference can be very small. It usually is not a bad sensor as the computer uses those to determine if the code should be set.

In this case check the camshaft adjustment valve. (Adjuster for the cam timing) Be sure it has power first, battery voltage key on. Then unplug it and check the resistance across the terminals (5-9 ohms) if not in spec replace valve. If you have proper voltage at valve, proper resistance across terminals and good ground. Test the signal wire from the ECM to the control valve, 1 ohm or less resistance in that wire. If that all checks out the ECM has a fault.

A good scan tool to actually look at what the computer sees and even better a scope and known good waveform would tell you a lot.
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Tuesday, January 17th, 2017 AT 2:35 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
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Would this valve issue cause a no start and do you have a location for that?
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Tuesday, January 17th, 2017 AT 5:46 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
Right on the front of the engine and it could shut down the engine if the difference is high enough.
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Tuesday, January 17th, 2017 AT 8:20 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
I guess I am missing it. Are you talking about the camshaft adjuster magnet?
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Tuesday, January 17th, 2017 AT 8:51 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
Basically I am getting a no start and not sure where else to turn. I have placed TDC again and about to remove the upper cover again to check the location on the timing marks on the camshafts. I am unsure what else to do. I will check the adjuster. I just need to figure out the no start and the code that came back was the corralation code but the chain is still intact and I can spin the engine and watch it and no slack can be seen.
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Tuesday, January 17th, 2017 AT 8:53 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
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I was told the car would still start if the timing is out a little just run terriable or make noise I have changed them before on other european cars and they all started. That is why I am baffled at times.
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-1
Tuesday, January 17th, 2017 AT 8:55 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
Might be out of time how do I check for that? Where are the camshaft marks when TDC and how to ensure you are TDC
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Tuesday, January 17th, 2017 AT 6:23 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
The camshaft timing valve is a solenoid that controls the cam timing. If it goes out of whack the cam timing will be way off. The engine doesn't run because the cam and crank are way out of time. Some will run if they are bad others won't.
Run the tests on it and see if it's bad.
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Tuesday, January 17th, 2017 AT 6:39 PM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
The problem is I have the timing cover off the top part now and I think I am tdc and the lines are not equal on both cams. The lines for the back of the sprocket line up though. Do u have insight on what I need to do to verify timing is spot on?

I also do not see the valve onlything I see remotely like that is the magnetic plate on the outside of the cover and that controls the oil.
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Tuesday, January 17th, 2017 AT 6:42 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
The solenoid that controls the oil is the part that changes the cam timing and the phasing with the crank. If it is bad it will throw the cam timing off, which is why the marks don't seem to be correct. It is the part that you test to be sure it is actually changing the cam timing. The ECM looks at the cam position relative to the crank. If the cam is supposed to be fully advanced at a certain point relative to the crankshaft but that valve isn't working, you get the P0016 code.

There is a TSB on that code as well - Basically says to test the control part first, then if it is OK to check the cam timing because of timing tensioner failure.

TSB 15-12-01
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 12:01 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
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Thanks will check today also how do u check for cam timing which will tell me if timing jumped correct
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 4:31 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
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At tdc left cam marks are around 12 o'clock lines up right cam about 16 links away but marks around the 3 o'clock
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 4:39 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
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When I test resistance also it drops to lik 3 ohms and then climbs up to line 19 and then going to 1 not sure if I'm testing correctly
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 4:46 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
Can I jump it to see if the valve pin pushes in or out if I turn it the pin goes in and out. And the part on the cam I can press in and out freely so that's not stuck
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 4:47 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
To test ohms - Set meter to ohms. Touch the probes to the contacts on the valve. Read what the meter says in ohms. 5-9 ohms is good. Lower or higher is bad.

Timing marks are not line up marks. They line up with colored links on the chain. Like the attached image. Find the colored links and line them up with the marks on the cams and crank.
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 12:16 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
Above should read "Timing marks are not line up with block markings".
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 12:18 PM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
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The colored chain marks do not line up with the cam marks not even close like at all but was told by a vw tech that its only like that once installed and then they move once the engine is ran. And I conducted the test many times and the ohms start higher drop to really low and sometimes climb up really high. So thats why I asked if I was doing sometihng wrong
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 1:23 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
The marks will line up but it may take a few turns of the crank to bring them back in line. There is a way to check by measuring the marks.
Rotate the crank in running direction until the mark on the dampener lines up with the mark on the lower timing chain cover. Then measure the dimensions in the drawings. Each tooth "off" from correct = 6mm difference.

Sounds like the control solenoid is bad. The readings shouldn't bounce around, it's only a long coil of wire inside.
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 3:11 PM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
So your saying my timing is probably good but the reason it is not starting and giving me the code is from the adjuster valve
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 4:44 PM
Tiny
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Also I have the metal silver one
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Wednesday, January 18th, 2017 AT 6:11 PM

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