I step on the brake pedal and feels hard and sometimes the car drags

Tiny
CHEVYOWNER10
  • MEMBER
  • 2010 CHEVROLET AVEO
  • 1.6L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 75,000 MILES
My car sometimes drags with the A/C on. I step on the brake pedal and feels hard and sometimes the car drags. This only occurs with the A/C on.

I just replaced the front calipers and front pads.
It didn't fix the issue. It doesn't drag constantly. Just at random times when you step on the brake pedal and slow down with the ac.

I only bled the front brakes after replacing the front calipers. I have a rear brake drum assembly. Should I bled the entire system? My brake fluid was also dirty so I changed it when I replaced the front calipers. Brake pads weren't worn uneven on one side so that's a good sign because that usually indicates worn hoses.

I am not sure if the hoses are still bad or not. The hoses aren't leaking, but might be internally because the fluid isn't probably going back to the master cylinder like it should.

Can you give me info on the bled sequence in this vehicle and how to check a master cylinder inside the car. If all checks out good, I might as well just replace the front hoses. But need to check some things first.

Thanks.
Friday, August 6th, 2021 AT 12:06 PM

13 Replies

Tiny
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I don't think this is related to the actual brake system meaning the pads and calipers or even the fluid.

I think you have an issue with the brake booster. Basically this is a vacuum operated diaphragm that helps you push the pedal. It is just an assist system that runs off the engine vacuum so when there is a leak in the booster, it sometimes bleeds off too much vacuum and the engine will actually stall or come close to stalling. Normally when you are coming to a stop as that is when idle is the lowest and braking force is the highest.

Also, if there is a leak it will cause the pedal to be hard or could even cause the dragging that you are seeing.

What I would do is unhook the booster plug the vacuum line with a bolt so that the engine vacuum remains constant and drive the vehicle and see if this acts up again. You are going to have manual breaks so do this in a safe location as the pedal will be hard to press all the time.

Please see the info below on the booster. This shows how to replace it but that includes the line to unhook.

Let me know if you have questions and we can go from there. Thanks
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Sunday, August 8th, 2021 AT 9:01 AM
Tiny
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I did not explain myself more clearly and I am sorry for this. But it doesn’t feel like a brake booster issue because if it was an issue with the brake booster I don’t think the engine would feel like it has no power and it wouldn’t be doing it constantly even with the A/C off? It’s doing this mostly on hot days but only when the A/C is running.

As soon as the I start the engine and it’s hot with the A/C on, the rpm needle jumps up and down to 1,000 RPMs for about a second or two with the engine feeling like it’s surging. The needle then quiets down and stops moving and everything fine.

Then when I am driving the vehicle, I slow down, when I come to a gradual stop, at idle the RPMs jump to 1,000 RPMs and the needle is doing the same thing. For a split second, the car feels like it’s moving itself forward and the engine starts to surge. It’s scary because sometimes I can’t seem to stop the vehicle for about a second. Than it’s all fine and everything is smooth when I stop again. It just feels like the engine doesn’t have much power when I am driving with the A/C on when it’s hot.

With the A/C off everything is fine and smooth traveling. Braking is fine, RPMs do not jump and stays steady, I am able to slow down fine without having the car still move forward.

One other guy said, it could be the idle air control valve is not functioning properly. The A/C compressor turns off and on do to the drag on the engine. But with this car because it’s newer, I don’t know if the computer needs to be reprogramed or if it’s something simple and I could just clean the idle control valve.
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Wednesday, August 11th, 2021 AT 11:40 AM
Tiny
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You could be correct however, if there is a leak in the booster and that bleeds off engine vacuum then you will loose power.

The way that works is the engine relies on engine vacuum to continue to pull air in so that it can mix it with fuel. The engine makes power by burning more fuel. However, it will not burn that fuel if the air mixture is off. Basically when it is too rich, the engine loose power just as if it was too lean.

So the easiest way to prove out the booster issue is unhook and cap the line from the engine so that you don't have a leak due to an open line.

You won't have brake assist but if this doesn't happen and smooths out then the booster is the issue.

Also, the idle control valve could be an issue but again this would normally only cause issues during idling but it is worth checking. I attached the info below on this.

The next thing I would do is unplug the MAP sensor and see if this smooths out. This could be throwing off the PCM when the additional load is introduced.

Please see the info below.
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Wednesday, August 11th, 2021 AT 3:47 PM
Tiny
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I just checked the dealer with my vin number and they told me I don’t have a idle air control valve. I have a MAP sensor. If I disconnect the MAP sensor and idle smooths out could it be the MAP sensor that’s bad?

As for the brake booster, what do you mean by “You won't have brake assist but if this doesn't happen and smooths out then the booster is the issue”
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Wednesday, August 25th, 2021 AT 2:09 PM
Tiny
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Yes. That would indicate that the MAP sensor is giving incorrect info.

What I meant by not having brake assist is when you unhook and plug the vacuum line to the booster, your booster will no longer have any vacuum applied to it so it will not help with braking.

The booster's purpose is to help you press the brake pedal so that you can stop faster. It runs off of engine vacuum so if you unhook it and the issue smooths out then that shows that there is a leak inside the booster that is causing the engine vacuum to escape.

So when this is unhooked you need to plug the line from the engine so that it is not leaking vacuum.

Let me know what questions you have on this. Thanks
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Wednesday, August 25th, 2021 AT 4:47 PM
Tiny
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Thanks for the explanation, it helps a lot because I am a beginner mechanic and try to fix a lot of stuff without any supervision so bare with me with all these questions.

As of today, here’s the news. I checked the brake booster and that seemed to be ok. Keep in mind, it’s almost close to 100 out today, so at idle I had my A/C running along time. Needle wouldn’t stop revving the engine at RPM, you can actually stand outside near the engine and hear it rev. When I went out of the parking lot to accelerate I can barely step on the pedal at first. I did notice when I apply the brakes, the car wasn’t dragging me this time and I was able to stop easy with applying the pedal.

I did some research and like I said above I don’t have a idle air control valve and that indicates it needs to be replaced when idle air control cannot compensate to smooth out idle with the computer. Therefore, I only have a mass air flow sensor and map sensor. Many other technicians recommended cleaning the mass air flow sensor or replacing it and that usually helped. So I bought a cheap aftermarket $25 MAF, that did not fix it and made it worse. Sent the part back, put the OEM one back in and what do you know... I cleaned it and was fine for a couple of days. But I still think it’s bad... So before I replace the mass air flow sensor for $60.00, any other things I should check? Isn’t it very rare a MAP sensor goes bad if you have a MAF sensor? And for the throttle position sensor, couldn’t that make idle unstable? Should I check operation of these sensors before replacing the MAF sensor just to be sure?
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Friday, August 27th, 2021 AT 10:02 AM
Tiny
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If you cleaned the MAF and it improved then yes, that points to that is the issue.

Just making sure this is how you cleaned it?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/mass-air-flow-service

If so and it returned to doing it a couple days later then just because you have a MAF issue doesn't mean you have a MAP issue.

The way to check the MAF sensor is to monitor the voltage at the sensor.

First, disconnect the sensor and make sure you have 5 volts between pin 4 and 5 with the key in the on position. Then plug the sensor back in and back probe the signal wire at pin 3 and 5 and start the engine. I expect at idle, you to have around 1 volt. Then as you rev the engine up and down the voltage should smoothly increase and decrease with the engine RPM.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

See below for the connector pin out to do this.
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Friday, August 27th, 2021 AT 7:45 PM
Tiny
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Thanks will let you know. I really appreciate this information.
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Tuesday, August 31st, 2021 AT 2:00 PM
Tiny
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You are welcome. Thanks for the update. Thanks for using 2CarPros. Let us know how you make out with this. Thanks
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Wednesday, September 1st, 2021 AT 8:06 AM
Tiny
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Okay, I am across something else. I didn't bother to check the mass flow sensor yet because I don't think that's the problem because acceleration is smooth and idle is fine. I was doing more research and saw somewhere a worn-out timing belt could make RPMs act crazy at idle? This vehicle just went to 76,000 today. Could that be wearing out? I have only replaced one so far but that was on a vehicle with over 100,000. Not sure how to adjust the timing or pulleys because someone helped me with that. Do you recommend replacing it? If so, is there an easy process for adjusting the timing?
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Wednesday, October 6th, 2021 AT 6:37 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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It is unlikely that this would cause an idle issue and the belt is not due until 100,000 miles so based on this, I would not replace it.

However, I would suggest we get a new post started on this issue and we can work through this one. Thanks
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Thursday, October 7th, 2021 AT 5:36 PM
Tiny
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Kenny, if you are reading this thread, I want to check back with you. I was able to finally get around checking the mass air flow sensor, although it hasn’t given me problems. But I was curious to see if it was working so I looked over the specs you sent me. I did not get 5 volts between pin 4 and 5, it was more around 7.1. But I did get around 0 to 1 volts between pin 3 and 5 while revving rpms at idle and it was where it should be. The connection is clean and not damaged. I found a very slight splice at the connectors wire for pin 5. But the connector overall seems tight.
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Tuesday, March 8th, 2022 AT 1:06 PM
Tiny
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That does appear to be fine. I did say that it was a 5-volt signal but that I don't think is correct. This is a 12-volt feed and then the low reference is going to be lower than 12 volts so 7 seems fine.

Clearly if the sensor is not giving an issue, then the readings are accurate so that is why it is not 5 volts.

If you are having an issue with this though, let's get a new post started and we will jump on this.

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/new

Thanks for coming back and updating us.
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Tuesday, March 8th, 2022 AT 5:30 PM

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