It is hard starting. It always starts the second or third try, but never the first.

Tiny
CHRIS2009TAYLOR
  • MEMBER
  • 1990 FORD TEMPO
  • 2.3L
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 120,000 MILES
Hello and thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions

I have a 1990 Ford tempo, 182,000 km
It is hard starting. It is a fuel circuit related problem
It always starts the second or third try, but never the first.

I have two questions. The first is not as important as the second question. It will just help me look through the wealth of information that “2carpros. Com” has provided, so I can find answers to my questions without having to ask you guys a question you have probably answered a number of times already.

Question 1.
If I wanted to narrow my search to get results directly related to my problem; How would I search and from which page (please provide link)would I search?

For example if I wanted to limit my search to,
a) Ford
b) Tempo
c) 1988-1991
d) fuel/pressure related issues

Is this possible?
When I type the words in bold, I get non ford cars as well as other years.

Question 2
I have a fuel pressure of 50 psi when the Tempo is running (runs great- no loping etc.) And when I shut off the engine the pressure goes immediately to 0 psi. I suspect the fuel regulator or rather the valve within it (presuming it has a mechanical valve as there is no electrical plug going to the regulator) is failing. I have looked the entire length of both the fuel supply and fuel return lines and I do not see any leaks anywhere. The pressure should be holding long after the engine is turned off.

So my important question is…
Where would you suggest looking for the problem of pressure loss?
Aside from the Fuel pump in the tank… are there other valves in the fuel line circuit that hold pressure in the circuit?

I performed the Regulator test that they suggest in the “Haynes” repair book – and the pressure does increase to about 60 psi with the vacuum hose off and plugged, which they suggest is an indication that the Regulator is not the problem.

Thank you for any help you can provide.
I'm comfortable with giving a $10 donation, but it has to be something that is helpful to me.

Chris Taylor
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Saturday, September 27th, 2014 AT 2:40 PM

9 Replies

Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
Check the regulator it should hold within 5 psi for a few minutes yours may be int eh tbi unit if yo have that
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Saturday, September 27th, 2014 AT 3:55 PM
Tiny
CHRIS2009TAYLOR
  • MEMBER
Check the regulator it should hold within 5 psi for a few minutes yours may be
"int eh tbi unit "if yo have that

I don't know what "int eh tbi unit " is.

"I performed the Regulator test that they suggest in the Haynes repair book and the pressure does increase to about 60 psi with the vacuum hose off and plugged, which they suggest is an indication that the Regulator is not the problem."

Is there always a valve in (all) regulators?
Is there a simple test for the regulator?
Any other places to look for pressure loss?

Thanks for the comment
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Saturday, September 27th, 2014 AT 4:06 PM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
It should be the because I'm old the keyboard doesn't always co-operate with my fingers. It should be 45-60 psi with engine running and without running it should be50-60 but that doesn't test when you shutdown. TBI units look kind of like a carburetor check yoru crank sensor it should be 210-250 ohms its'in distributor in pic is proper way to test pressure regulator. If you are sure it's fuel it shold drop more than 5 psi in 60 seconds bu t that wil show you how to test it.
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Saturday, September 27th, 2014 AT 5:19 PM
Tiny
CHRIS2009TAYLOR
  • MEMBER
Thanks Hmac300,
I'll try plugging the return line or simply change the regulator (as I'm pretty sure it isn't the pump). You hadn't mentioned if this is the only valve in the system.
Is It?
The attachment you sent;
ie: plugging the return line to see if the pressure drops,
sounds like a good test.
Presumably I shouldn't plug it for too long as this would cause back pressure in the supply line. Correct?
I came across an image before I received your reply (which I will try to attach here) which led me to believe that the problem could be a weak spring in the regulator which would explain the loss of pressure after the engine (and fuel pump) have stopped. This would explain why it would take so long for the gas to reach the injectors.

I'll get back to folks if the regulator is the problem, but you hadn't mentioned if this is the only valve in the system.
Is It?

Thanks again, from Chris
Sept. 28-2014
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Sunday, September 28th, 2014 AT 2:24 PM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
It is probably the only valve in system other than one in pump maybe. That test is to scheck pump and regulator.
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Sunday, September 28th, 2014 AT 3:42 PM
Tiny
CHRIS2009TAYLOR
  • MEMBER
Thanks for the info, HMAC300

So I replaced the regulator with a good used one,
(rather than try and make something to plug the return line) and the pressure still dropped to zero immediately after I shut the engine off.
I then plugged the return line as you suggested The pressure increased to 75 psi and stabilized (toke 10 seconds), so I turned it off and the pressure still dropped to zero immediately.
If this also tests for the pump as you say, then I must
have an internal leak somewhere.

Is this right?

Any checks that you can suggest?

I have a video scope which I m thinking of using to see into the cylinders
(thru spark plug holes) if there is any wet fuel being leaked by the fuel injectors.

Is there a better way?

It seems likely this probably won t find the problem. Because if a fuel injector was a problem I should hear a roughness to the engine
or I should see some external signs of damage to the fuel injector.
Which I don t. I also listened thru a stethoscope and heard the clicking sound at all injectors.

Is it possible that there is a valve at the pump that is not closing,
because the EEC (computer) is sending it a signal not to close?

Ie: possibly because of gas vapor in the canister (CANP) of because of a faulty vapor valve (EVP)?

PS. The tank is almost empty in case I need to access the pump.

Thanks again,
from Chris
Sept. 30-2014
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Tuesday, September 30th, 2014 AT 12:45 PM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
It's probably a valve in pump not allowing it if you followed instructions that I sent it would tell you wha t to check next. Injector problem would bleed slower and cause other problems. And evap is only vapor nothing else.
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Tuesday, September 30th, 2014 AT 3:40 PM
Tiny
CHRIS2009TAYLOR
  • MEMBER
Oct 15/2014,

Thanks again for the input.

The comment you made;
"It is probably the only valve in system other than one in pump maybe. That test is to scheck pump and regulator."

I don't think is correct,

I think the problem is probably with the valve inside the pump.
I know the pump only has 20,000 km on it, so I'm probably going to live with the inconvenience of cranking it 2 or 3 times to get it started.
Once started, it runs fine.

I was thinking of putting in an inline fuel check valve.
I phoned local auto stores; they don t sell.
I looked online and found some (see picture), but they don t specify a pressure rating which I would like to see.
My only concern about doing this would be that I may be creating an air pocket between where the check valve is installed and the tank s pump.

What are your thoughts?

A) Where can I get a check valve for fuel?
B) Air pocket concern?

Thanks again,

Chris
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Wednesday, October 15th, 2014 AT 12:11 PM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
It's not worth the money or time to put that in your system, it's more trouble than it's worth. I can't answer any more due to being away from home computer and won''t be back until end of month. Probably what is really wrong is car is old and pump is weak causing this and just put up with it until it fails completely. If you aren't satisfied with this answer then repost and another mechanic will answer
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Wednesday, October 15th, 2014 AT 12:20 PM

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