Intermittent crank no start?

Tiny
SL1M3G1RL
  • MEMBER
  • 1997 CHEVROLET EXPRESS
  • 5.7L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 180,000 MILES
Hello. I'm currently experiencing an intermittent crank no start issue with my vehicle listed above 1500. It has been driving me crazy for months and I'm at a loss for where to go from here. The issue first started about 2 months ago when I filled up my tank with gas, the van started rough (cranking longer than usual and sputtering a little). Then after I parked it for the night it wouldn't start at all the next morning. It would start right up with starter fluid then stop when the spray was stopped so I assumed it was a fuel delivery issue. However, I was getting fuel up to the Schrader valve and could hear my fuel pump running, so I wondered if it could be the antitheft system (I believe it should be pass lock with this model but can't confirm it) which cuts power to the fuel injectors. I tried a key relearn procedure that I saw on YouTube and after not starting all day my van fired right up. However, I believe this was probably a coincidence because that procedure has not worked during any of the crank no start episodes afterwards. Also, my engine turns over without a key just by twisting the lip of my ignition cylinder, so it seems unlikely that there is an active antitheft system. I next tested my fuel pressure with a test kit and found that it was reading a bit low- around 55 PSI koeo which is out of spec for the 60-65 PSI koeo I'm supposed to see. I learned that the poppet nozzle injectors I have in my csfi fuel injection system are super sensitive to low fuel pressure, so I decided to replace the fuel pump. I ruled out the pressure regulator because my system was holding pressure super well for a long period of time even when I switched the ignition off. I also started by replacing my fuel filter before replacing the pump and I saw a temporary increase in fuel pressure and the van drove fine for a couple days before the problem came back. I checked the new fuel filter, and it still looks good so that's not the issue. I also started to notice that whenever my van would break down and then get towed it would work immediately after being towed, so I thought maybe there was debris getting stuck in my fuel pump sock that was getting dislodged during towing. I replaced the fuel pump and was now seeing 62 psi koeo. However, the issue is still coming back about every 4 days. I will first noticed that my van cranks for longer than usual and starts a little rough (sometimes it skips this step). And then after I park it if I leave it for a little while, even just 5 minutes it will crank and then sputter and die and just crank and crank after that. I have realized that whenever this problem appears I can temporarily fix it by jumping up and down on my bumper for a couple minutes. It will then start up and drive fine for another 4 or so days before it starts to start rougher and rougher, or occasionally just crank no start out of nowhere. At this point the van is extremely unreliable and can't even really be used. I wanted to add that I can always hear my fuel pump running when this issue occurs. And I consistently check all of my fuses which are always fine. I also scan it for codes frequently and only ever get a p0157 which is low voltage to o2s b2s2. This makes sense because I don't have a catalytic converter. One time clearing the code when my van was broken down got it to start right up, but it hasn't worked since then so it must have been a coincidence. The issue also doesn't seem to be temperature related, it has occured while the engine is hot or cold and in different weather. I have not been able to find anything weird by reading live data on my code scanner. Any input would be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance!
Saturday, November 19th, 2022 AT 10:14 PM

37 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,179 POSTS
Hi,

Do you have a live data scan tool? If you do, when the engine is cold, check the signal from the engine coolant temperature sensor (ECT) to see if it is near the ambient outside temperature.

If the ECT is sending a signal that is incorrect, it can cause the PCM to adjust the air/fuel mixture so far rich or far lean that the engine won't run. And it will likely not set a code because the PCM doesn't recognize if it is wrong. If it gets a signal, it accepts it as correct.

You indicated that when it starts it stumbles. If it is dumping fuel, that would cause that to happen. Have you ever noticed any smoke from the exhaust when that happens?

Let me know if you do have a scan tool with live data and what you find.

Take care,

Joe
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Sunday, November 20th, 2022 AT 8:48 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe!

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have a live data scan tool. I have checked my ECT reading many times and it is always near the ambient temp. I do notice a lot of visible exhaust fumes sometimes, but my van has always been like this because I don't have a catalytic converter and I have several exhaust leaks. I need to get that fixed. I have also checked my short-term fuel trim readings if that helps. They are always within 10% usually indicating slightly lean. As of today, my van is still not producing the crank no start condition although it does crank for a while when I don't cycle the ignition first. Today I decided to install a new good quality battery because I remembered that my ground terminal always fits slightly less snug than it should. I'll let you know what the results of that are tomorrow.
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Sunday, November 20th, 2022 AT 9:02 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Sounds like a plan. I will watch for the results.

Take care,

Joe
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Monday, November 21st, 2022 AT 6:19 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe,

I don't really have much to report from today because everything went really well. The issue is hiding right now. I experimented with starting my van cold without priming the fuel pump (well letting it prime for more than a second) first to see if it would cause the issue but it didn't. It did sputter a bit that first time starting. Then I made sure my new battery was secure and took it on a couple test drives today bringing it up to temp and everything. It started up great every time. I also noticed that my p0157 code isn't back yet although looking at the live data my b2s2 o2s is consistently reading 0v. I also looked at other live data points throughout the day like the ECT and short-term fuel trim and everything was normal. I guess I just need to keep test driving it lots every day and see if I can get the problem to happen again. It always seems to run completely fine when I have the time to work on it and then break down once I finally have the confidence to take it out somewhere important, haha.
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Monday, November 21st, 2022 AT 7:21 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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If you are getting 0v from the O2 sensors, either they are bad or not getting a power signal.

Let me know if things change. If I don't hear from you for a few days, have a great Thanksgiving.

Take care of yourself,

Joe
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Monday, November 21st, 2022 AT 7:40 PM
Tiny
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Hm, well I thought my bank 2 sensor 2 oxygen sensor would be showing 0v since it's supposed to be basing its input off of the catalytic converter which I don't have. But maybe it's just bad all together. However, it seems really unlikely that a bad O2 sensor would be the cause of this issue, right?
Thank you and enjoy your holiday too.
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Monday, November 21st, 2022 AT 7:45 PM
Tiny
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One thing that I did notice while starting my van just now is that it sort of "drops out" for a second when I first start it. My engine starts and then goes really quiet for 1 second like it's going to stall and then recovers. This often happens before a crank no start episode. But this time I tried starting it a few times afterwards and it started fine every time.
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Monday, November 21st, 2022 AT 8:17 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Regardless of the missing converter, the sensor should still be functional and measure the exhaust output. Could that be causing issues? Anything is possible.

Have you checked to see if there are any connection issues?

Joe
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Tuesday, November 22nd, 2022 AT 5:50 PM
Tiny
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Got it. I haven't found any visible connection issue although it does look like the wiring is very cramped and pressed against the body of my van. It is right after where the cat was cut out so there has definitely been work done in that area. Maybe it would be worth it to get the o2s checked out by a mechanic.
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Tuesday, November 22nd, 2022 AT 5:57 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

No need. If you have a multimeter, you can do it yourself. Here is a link that explains how it's done. The only thing you will need other than a multimeter is a helper to hit the throttle for you.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-oxygen-sensor-02-sensor

Let me know what you find or if you have questions.

Take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, November 22nd, 2022 AT 7:13 PM
Tiny
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Awesome, thank you so much!
I will do these tests ASAP and get back to you.
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Tuesday, November 22nd, 2022 AT 7:37 PM
Tiny
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Here's a clip of the dropping out/ gasping noise my engine often makes when starting.
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Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022 AT 4:13 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

I heard it. It could be a fuel pressure-related issue or a few other things. Are you saying that when this happens, there are times it won't restart?

Check the sensor first. If that checks good, then we need to determine what is being lost. When it won't start, see if there is spark to the plugs.

Here is a link that explains how it's done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-for-ignition-sp

If there is spark, see what happens with starting fluid. If it starts and then stalls, we have a fuel-related issue.

Let me know what you find, and I hope you have a good Thanksgiving.

Take care,

Joe
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Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022 AT 8:32 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe,

Yes, I will check the sensor asap. I think the symptom itself comes from a fuel related issue because my van always starts and then stalls with starting fluid when it is doing the crank no start. I usually notice harder starting and sputtering as well as the noise I showed you when a crank no start episode is about to happen. And usually, it begins when I go to start the van and then it makes that gasping noise and then actually dies and then will only crank after that. I can usually then fix that issue by jumping up and down on my bumper which will get it to run fine for another few days. The confusing part is that whenever I've tested my fuel pressure it has always been pretty good. When the issue first occurred it was at 55psi koeo which is too low (supposed to be 60-62 psi) but the pressure was holding well. So, I replaced the fuel pump and filter and now I get consistently good fuel pressure. I want to test if I'm getting pulse to my injectors next time the crank no start happens but I'm still waiting for it to happen again. Will let you know how the o2s sensor test goes soon.
Enjoy your holiday tomorrow!
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Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022 AT 8:40 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

If you suspect the injectors, see if it starts with starting fluid first. If it does and then stalls, then you are likely correct.

As far as the injectors, each one will have a pink wire in its connector. With the key on, all of the injectors' pink wires should have battery voltage. If they don't, wiggle the fuse around first to see if it isn't making a good connection. Also, move the pink wires around because there are two giant splices they are a part of. We could be losing power at the splices. See pic 1 below

The idea that you jumping on the bumper makes it work sounds like we either have a loose or poor connection.

Let me know what you find.

Joe

See pic below.
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Thursday, November 24th, 2022 AT 10:32 PM
Tiny
SL1M3G1RL
  • MEMBER
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That wiring diagram is very helpful thank you. To clarify, that is specific to my vehicle, right? My fuel injectors themselves are under my intake manifold but the electrical connection for the spider assembly is on top so I believe I can check the wires there. I'm still not having any issues though so I'm not sure if my results right now would reveal what's actually happening during the crank no start moments. I plan on doing the O2S test tomorrow as well as well as pulling out my engine fuse block and looking under it because I noticed some corrosion and rust there and I'm wondering if there are wiring issues underneath it. I'll let you know what those tests tell me.
Thank you for your help and have a great night.
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Thursday, November 24th, 2022 AT 10:51 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

I hope you had a great Thanksgiving. I guess it's time to focus on Christmas now. LOL

As far as the wiring is concerned, yes, that is specific to your vehicle. If you need any schematics, let me know which ones and I'll try to get what you need.

Take care and you have a good night as well.

Joe
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Friday, November 25th, 2022 AT 7:03 PM
Tiny
SL1M3G1RL
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I really appreciate your help with schematics, they can be hard for me to find sometimes. It would actually be super helpful if you happen to have access to a chassis wiring diagram for my van, a full one would be great but I'm mainly looking at my ignition switch circuit right now. Just so you don't have to go back and check it's a 1997 Chevy express 1500 5.7l V8. I found some damaged wiring unde my steering wheel today that seems to be connected to my ignition switch so I'm fixing that right now. I also have some other electrical issues like lights working intermittently that I should check out. I remembered that the last time my van broke down I was having weird electrical symptoms like my window motors working really slowly (even though my battery gauge showed that I had good battery voltage). I'm kind of wondering if I have an electrical gremlin that messes with my fuel pressure at this point. I also did the oxygen sensor test today and my B2S2 O2S tested bad. However, I doubt this could be the cause of my problem since that one is mainly just there to provide feedback on how the cat is working, right? I don't think it should have much of an impact on the air fuel ratio but maybe I'm misunderstanding. I will try to replace it asap either way.
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Friday, November 25th, 2022 AT 7:38 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

As far as the exterior lighting is concerned, believe it or not, there are two designs. LOL Does the vehicle have sealed beam headlamps or composite headlamps?

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.
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Friday, November 25th, 2022 AT 8:04 PM
Tiny
SL1M3G1RL
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Ooof I'm not sure haha. I will check when I get home around 9. Do you know how I can tell? Sorry not familiar with what the difference is.
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Friday, November 25th, 2022 AT 8:10 PM

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