ENGINE SHUTS OFF AFTER RUNNING FOR SOME TIME

Tiny
SAYEEDFAMILY.ORG
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 3.3L
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 237,985 MILES
ENGINE SHUTS OFF AFTER RUNNING FOR SOME TIME:

1. When the vehicle is running on the road, the engine shuts off after running for some time. The distance it runs is about 1 or 2 kilometres before it shuts off.

2. The same thing happens when the vehicle is just stationary and idling. When idling it shuts off after running anywhere between 15 minutes to 1.5 hours.

3. If the fuel tank is tapped with a rubber mallet on its underside the vehicle starts up immediately and runs for some more time.

4. On the other hand, if the vehicle is restarted after about about an hour (without tapping the fuel tank with the mallet) it starts up and again runs for some time before it shuts off,

5. Also, when it shuts off by itself (which means the ignition is still on) the fuel pump relay goes on and off which turns the fuel pump on and off (this clicking of the relay and fuel pump going on and off can be easily heard). This continues until the ignition is turned off.

3. This problem started after it was taken for an emission test and related repairs were done. In this case the IAT and O2 sensors were replaced for the very first time. I have never had this problem or any other problem with this vehicle so far because it is maintained well and driven very carefully. I intend to keep it as long as possible and NOT to run it into the ground.

4. The vehicle never had the current problem even though it has close to 237 985 miles (383 000 kilometres) on the odometer.

5. I thought that the fuel filter might have finally become clogged and replaced it myself. This repair did not make any difference. The problem sitll persiste.

6. Do you have any ideas on might be the problem?

7. Your response will be very much appreciated.

8. If you require any clarifications, please feel free to contact me at the following address:

8.1. Sayeed. Ka@sayeedfamily. Org

Sincerely,

Kabeer Sayeed
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Sunday, February 7th, 2016 AT 7:33 PM

12 Replies

Tiny
CATAFINA
  • MEMBER
It sounds like your fuel pump is on its way out, try checking the fuel pressure if its within specs. Start here
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Monday, February 8th, 2016 AT 1:10 AM
Tiny
SAYEEDFAMILY.ORG
  • MEMBER
Thank you very much for your response.

In pursuance of your advice, I have purchased a Fuel Pressure Tester.

I am unable to find a test port on the vehicle in question to connect the tester to. Kindly let me know where to connect the tester.

I await your response.

Regards.

Kabeer Sayeed
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Wednesday, February 24th, 2016 AT 5:09 PM
Tiny
CATAFINA
  • MEMBER
It is right along the fuel rail, also check/test ASD relay and the Intelligent Power Module.
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Wednesday, February 24th, 2016 AT 6:10 PM
Tiny
SAYEEDFAMILY.ORG
  • MEMBER
Thank you very much for your response.

Following your reply, I studied the descriptions and diagrams in the original Daimler Chrysler manual for the Dodge Grand Caravan 2002, 3.3 litre, V6. There was no indication of any Fuel Pressure Test Port. I wonder why.

I then looked at the engine from the driver's side where the ignition coil is located. I could see no test port. Perhaps it is hidden behind the Power Steering Fluid Reservoir which is just above the ignition coil. Do you think removing the reservoir may expose the test port?

I also looked at the passenger side of the engine where the air intake is but could not see any test port. I wonder if it is hidden inside the Upper Intake Manifold. Will removing the manifold be necessary in order to expose the test port?

Regarding the Auto Shut Down (ASD) relay which, according to the Manual, is located in the Integrated Power Module (IPM), will this cause the engine to shut down while it is running? As I have mentioned in an earlier message, the engine idles for about 15 minutes and then stops. If it is started after about 15 minutes, it runs for another 15 minutes and so on. These times are very approximate and vary. Some times, striking the bottom of the fuel tank after the engine shuts down causes it to idle longer (up to 90 minutes). Could the ASD relay be causing these varying behaviours?

Incidentally, the VIN for this vehicle is 2B4GP44R32R601774. Perhaps it might be of help in resolving the difference between the original manual, which says absolutely nothing about the test port, and the opinion of experts such as yourself regarding the Fuel Test Port.

I look forward to your response.

Regards.

Kabeer Sayeed
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Thursday, February 25th, 2016 AT 7:32 AM
Tiny
CATAFINA
  • MEMBER
Perhaps the fuel pump is on its way out, when it cools off and gets warm again it breaks up as per the test port that is what it says the location, also you can try teeing-in on the pressure side of the fuel line.S
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Thursday, February 25th, 2016 AT 2:02 PM
Tiny
KEN
  • ADMIN
It does sounds like a classic fuel pump problem
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Monday, March 7th, 2016 AT 10:33 AM
Tiny
SAYEEDFAMILY.ORG
  • MEMBER
Thanks for your responses (Catafina & Ken).

I found something that looked like a "Fuel Rail Test Port". It seemed to be on the fuel rail as suggested by Catafina. It was close to the ignition coil and just behind and under the power steering reservoir. I had to remove the power steering reservoir and it was behind it. It was on the fuel rail which runs in the middle of the upper intake manifold.

It is rather strange that the designers of the vehicle made it so very difficult to obtain access to a simple test port! The design was as bad as the design of the fuel tank and filter where I had to remove the tank to replace the fuel filter which could have been, quite easily, kept in the engine compartment as was the case with other vehicles that I have owned.

However, the "Fuel Rail Test Port" has a peculiar cap on top of it. When I tried to unscrew this cap, it just kept on rotating and did not come off. On examination of the cap, it appeared to be secured to the port in a rather odd way which was quite unlike the usual threaded caps on Schrader valves. It had metal tabs below it which seemed to secure it to the test port.

Before I try to remove it using some other method and perhaps cause damage to the cap and the port, I would like your expert opinion on the best way to get it off.

I look forward to your response.

Regards.

Kabeer Sayeed
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Tuesday, March 8th, 2016 AT 9:27 PM
Tiny
KEN
  • ADMIN
The cap should come right off, I'm sorry for the slow response the system must have had a glitch, Did you get the problem fixed?
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Sunday, April 24th, 2016 AT 1:29 PM
Tiny
SAYEEDFAMILY.ORG
  • MEMBER
The cap does not come off by unscrewing it because it is not a threaded cap as I have mentioned earlier. I had to open the tabs to remove the cap. After removing it, I found that there was no way to screw on a pressure gauge to it because there was no threaded port. I could see the fuel inside the fuel rail. I replaced the cap, and secured it using a hose clamp and tested it to make sure that the fuel did not leak.

It looks as if there is no fuel pressure test post on the vehicle. I suspect that one has to use Chrysler's DRBIII scan tool to measure the pressure on the vehicle in question. This tool costs several thousand dollars. The only other way of checking the fuel pressure may be to insert a test port into the fuel line.

What do you think? I would like your expert opinion and advice on this. I await your response.

Regards.

Kabeer Sayeed
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Monday, April 25th, 2016 AT 5:45 PM
Tiny
KEN
  • ADMIN
You will need an adapter which will fit between the fuel line from the rail to the engine (flex hose) an auto parts store can rent you one for about $25 bucks.
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Monday, April 25th, 2016 AT 6:48 PM
Tiny
SAYEEDFAMILY.ORG
  • MEMBER
Thank you for your response.

I have done the following in order to resolve this problem:

1. Installed a fuel pressure and flow test port in the steel fuel line immediately after the fuel filter with a steel Schrader Valve to connect the fuel pressure test gauge.

2. I have then used an Innova fuel pressure test gauge to test the fuel pressure. The following are the results of the test for the vehicle in question:

2.1. Fuel Pressure with Engine Running: 425.0 kPa (65.0 psi approximately).

2.2. Fuel Pressure with Engine Off and Ignition On: Same as above.

2.3. Fuel Pressure with Ignition Off: 400.0 kPa (58.0 psi approximately).

2.4. Fuel Flow Rate as measured through the discharge port of the Innova fuel pressure test gauge with Engine Off and Ignition On: 0.250 litres per minute.

2.5. NOTE:

2.5.1. The fuel pump continues to run with the Engine Off and the Ignition On but it stops for less than a second and then runs again for about 5 seconds and repeats this cycle over and over again as long as the ignition is on.

2.5.2. The results of the pressure test indicate that the pressure readings are within the specifications as contained in the original Daimler Chrysler manual which are as follows: 400.0 + or - 34.0 kPa (58.0 psi + or - 7.0 psi).

2.5.3. There is no specification in the manual for the fuel flow rate.

3. I then tested the ASD (Auto Shut Down Relay) by switching it with another identical relay. This did not solve the problem of the engine shutting down after running for random intervals of time. These times vary between 5 minutes and 90 minutes or more with the engine idling.

Some history might help. I have never had this problem with this vehicle and the vehicle has been running reliably for 14 years with only routine maintenance. It has close to 400 000 km on it. This problem started after I took the vehicle for emission test repairs to a very large and leading repair establishment for carrying out emission system repairs required by the Department of Transportation. Just before I took it for the repairs, I had driven the vehicle from one city to another for a distance of 650 km WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM.

I now await your expert opinion on the causes for the random shutting down of the engine.

Sincerely,

Kabeer Sayeed
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Thursday, May 5th, 2016 AT 11:58 AM
Tiny
KEN
  • ADMIN
I would worry about the rate if there is pressure, it would only make the engine have low power but not stall. Can you keep the fuel gauge on the car when you drive it in view maybe taped to a window? This is what I have done to confirm the fuel pump failure. The goal is to see the pressure while the engine stalls. I will make an articles about this problem and post it soon. Also you can tap in a test light to the power feed of the pump using long leads and locate the light inside the car as well to see if the power to the pump gets cut off. Please let me know

Best, Ken
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Friday, May 6th, 2016 AT 1:43 PM

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