2003 Dodge Intrepid Timing

Tiny
RPAC
  • MEMBER
  • 2003 DODGE INTREPID
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 70,000 MILES
I just recently changed the water pump and timing chain on my 2.7 L '03 Intrepid. The marks on the new timing chain are lined up with the marks on the cam sprockets and the other colered link is between the mark on the crank shaft and oil pump. As far as the timing marks go, I believe it is just as it was. It will start but is very sluggish and will not idle. Every 15 seconds or so it backfires. Other than the backfire there is no other noise (ie. I don't think there is any internal engine damage). The cam sprockets were not moved more that 10 degrees during removal and re-installation. The old chain was stretched a bit. I am stumped. What else can I do?

Also, check engine light has come on but I am not able to obtain the codes as I don't have a scanner. Is there something else that could be causing the backfire?
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Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 AT 8:31 PM

9 Replies

Tiny
BUDDYCRAIGG
  • EXPERT
Most auto part stores will let you rent a code scanner for free.
You just have to leave them the full price for it as a deposit.

So get the codes and we'll go from there.

But i'm gonna say you didn't get it timed correctly when you put it back together.

Sorry.
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Thursday, December 18th, 2008 AT 9:12 PM
Tiny
RPAC
  • MEMBER
OK. I have obtained a code scanner. 19 codes were stored (probably from the past 5 years). Therefore, I cleared them. Put as much back together as I needed to start it up. The check engine light came on. The code was P0300 - random misfire. Many of the codes that were included in the original 19 were specific cylindar/coil misfires. Also, the car now idles and doesn't seem as rough as it was, but it still registered P0300. Also, I ran it for about 1 minute and I didn't hear a backfire. I am pretty sure it was a backfire that I heared before because when I took the plugs back out, they were clean except for the back two (cylindars 5 and 6 were black).

Also, I took clear pictures of the timing chain and sprockets before I originally took them apart. The cam sprockets, marks on timing chain and timing marks on crank are exactly as they were before. Is it possible (because the original chain was so stretched) that it is taking longer for the computer to "learn" and re-adjust to the new chain?
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Friday, December 19th, 2008 AT 2:20 PM
Tiny
BUDDYCRAIGG
  • EXPERT
About the cam timing.
You're there looking at it, not me, so i'm going to believe you that it's timed correctly.

Let's talk about the black spark plugs.
If they're too dirty they wont fire.

Did you disturb wires going to those coils.
(could you have put the #5 wire on #6 coil and vise verse)

i suggest that you get 2 new plug (or thoroughly the black ones) and swap coils 5, 6 with the other four.
To see if the problem stay in cylinders 5, 6 or if the fouling of the plug moves with the coils.

Heck, 2 fouled plugs right next too each other in the firing order like yours is, would cause one heck of a bumpy idle. And loosing 1/3 of your engine would be a major power loss.
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Friday, December 19th, 2008 AT 7:06 PM
Tiny
RPAC
  • MEMBER
Sorry there is so much info here. I figure, the more I can tell you, the better chance of getting this diagnosis right.

I was talking with a guy in the auto parts store today. He asked if I disconnected the battery before I started. I didn't. He said disconnecting the battery forces the computer to re-learn the timing from the sensors. If the battery was not disconnected, the computer is starting out as if the old chain was still in and it may take longer for the computer to "even out". As I said, the last time I started the car it didn't backfire and it also idled, which it wouldn't do the first time. It was much better the second time I started it as opposed to the first.

What do you think?

I was going to disconnect the battery for about 20 minutes and then try starting it. If this solves it great, if not I will swap the coils like you said. I cleaned up the plugs before I put them back in the last time (wire wheel). I would suspect they would still be clean as I don't think it backfired the last time.

Let me know what you think.
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Saturday, December 20th, 2008 AT 12:12 PM
Tiny
RPAC
  • MEMBER
Since my last post I put the power steering pump and both serpentine belts back on the front of the engine. I tried to start it up and the battery was too weak. Therefore, I hooked up the battery charger/jumper and let it charge for a bit. I started it up and it sounded more like the first time I started it. A lot of drag and it was hard to keep it going. I think this is likely because of the additional drag put on the engine by the two serpentine belts and all they are connected to (I didn't have these on the last time and the engine sounded better). Also, the engine will not idle now (likely, because of the additional drag). The engine still did not backfire. I checked the codes again and now there are 12 registered.

P0351-ignition coil A
P0352-ignition coil B
P0353-ignition coil C
P0354-ignition coil D
P0700-Trans control system
P0351-ignition coil A
P0352-ignition coil B
P0562-System low voltage
P0353-ignition coil C
P0354-ignition coil D
P0135- Oxygen sensor heater circuit malfunction (bank1, sensor 1)
P0155- Oxygen sensor heater circuit malfunction (bank2, sensor 1)
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Saturday, December 20th, 2008 AT 1:44 PM
Tiny
RPAC
  • MEMBER
Also, I thought that if it was out of time I may see a decrease in compression on one bank of cylinders. All cylinders were between 145 and 160.

When removing the drivers side valve cover, I damaged (what I now know is) the ignition coil capacitor. I was told it was for noise supression. It was mounted to one of the bolts that holds down the valve cover. I didn't think it was much. I thought it just grounded the wire. Therefore, I cut off the end and connected a wireless connecter and re-attached it to the valve cover bolt. When I initially tried to start the engine (after replacing the timing chain and water pump), it would turn over great but didn't sound like it was firing. I checked the fuses in the relay center (under the hood). A 20 amp fuse labeled Ign/coil was blown. I replaced it and tried to start it again. Again, it blew. I then found out what this part was and disconnected the wire from the valve cover. I then tried to start the engine. It would turn over but would not start and it didn't sound like it was firing. I went to the Chrysler dealer and got this part, an ignition coil capacitor. I put them back in (one for each side of cylinders) and tried to start the car. It started up but would run really rough, like it is now. Could I have damaged a coil or the ignition module? The fuse is still good (grounding that wire probably blew the fuse).
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Saturday, December 20th, 2008 AT 2:41 PM
Tiny
RPAC
  • MEMBER
Update.

I checked for spark at the drivers side cylinders. Two out of the three do not have spark. After swaping plugs and coils, I have determined it is not a coil or a plug. According to the manual I have, the next thing to check is the cam and crankshaft position sensors. The voltage going to the camshaft sensor is supposed to be 8 volts. It reads 5 and I am not getting a signal out of it when the crank is rotated. Therefore, I swapped out sensors with another 2.7 engine and it didn't make a difference. It states in the book if the voltage is not correct, check the wiring between it and the PCM. If it is OK, have the dealer check the PCM.

What do you think. Could I have damaged it when I grounded out the wire going to the ignition coil capacitor?
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Saturday, December 20th, 2008 AT 5:57 PM
Tiny
BUDDYCRAIGG
  • EXPERT
You got an error code for a low battery.
And you've got low voltage going to the cam sensor.

You need to have the battery fully charged before you do anymore testing
or you are going to get screwy results.
Kawasaki motorcycles, will not run well with a dead battery in them. The computer is just that sensitive.
.
.
.
The whole, broke a capacitor, blew a couple of fuses, and a step by step book telling you to have the PCM checked by a dealer is not making me feel positive about this.
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Sunday, December 21st, 2008 AT 1:32 AM
Tiny
KOORBMEH
  • MEMBER
Check your fuel pressure, it may be time for a new fuel pump.
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Saturday, April 11th, 2009 AT 9:33 PM

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