1998 Dodge Intrepid 6 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 125000 miles
I am having a problem with the heater on my 98 2.7 Intrepid. Unable to get hot air flow either idling or driving. It might just be me, but it sems like the air flow is cooler coming out of the defrost vents than from the dash/floor vents. Thermostat has been replaced (proper operation verified before installing with bleed hole @ 12: 00). Car is running at normal operating temperature. Had to replace gooseneck and heater coil supply tubing due to a leaking bleed valve. There apears to be NO air in the system. Heater core was backflushed, there appears to be no restriction. Hose temp on exit line is aprox. 15 deg. Cooler than supply line when fan is running. Blend door actuator was replaced last spring (motor shorted). When temp control is moved from hot to cold temp changes drastically and door can be heard moving. On-board non-ATC diagnostics indicate all is good. Engine is running at normal operating temperature, not overheating or running cold. Is there a cabin filter or inlet supply for the air that could possibly be obstructed? Air flow seems adequate, not restricted. I am begining to suspect a mal-functioning heater control blend door actuator, which was just replaced earlier this year. It may not be properly seated. The actuator is shifting but I can't verify if it is shifting properly or closing the door all of the way. This actuator is just about impossible to access. Any ideas?
There are numerous TSBs on heating problems for the vehicle. I can attach them all for your review and possible this will provide you some info.
I do see a common thread - they all keep talking about air in the system. I know you said you have bled it and I am sure you have. The bleeder screw on top?
Review these TSBs, it has you removing the fuse M1 if I remember correctly, and then restarting the car so the system resets itself.
Try them and let us know. Anything that deals with the heat, even the one that says, no heat but car overheating I am going to give to you for your review.
A/C - Erratic Operation/Poor Performance
NUMBER: 24-002-04 REV. A
GROUP: Heating & A/C
DATE: July 30, 2004
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 24-002-04, DATED MARCH 30, 2004, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDES ADDITIONAL MODEL YEAR.
SUBJECT: A/C and Heater Performance
OVERVIEW: This bulletin provides diagnostic information for A/C and heater performance complaints.
2001 - **2005** (JR) Sebring Convertible/Sebring Sedan/Stratus Sedan
NOTE : Perform Customer Satisfaction Notification no. 857, reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM), for 2000 model year LH-vehicles built prior to August 30, 1999 (MDH 0830XX).
SYMPTOM/CONDITION: Erratic operation of the A/C and heater systems including: Lack of cold air
Lack of hot air
Unrequested mode change - Automatic Temperature Control (ATC) only)
No control of mode or temperature control
Tapping noise from blend door
The above Symptoms may be accompanied by the following Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs): Blend door feedback
Blend door stall
A/C control mode door input shorted to battery
Mode door stall
In car temp sensor failure ATC messages not received
DIAGNOSIS: Do not attempt to remove A/C control until after this entire Diagnosis and Repair Procedure has been performed.
Verify customer reported symptom(s) if possible.
Check for the presence of DTCs with the scan tool (DRBIII(R)) and record on the repair order. If a DRBIII(R) is not available reference the appropriate Service Manual - Heating and Air Conditioning "Self Diagnostics" procedure and record any present DTCs on the repair order. If Symptoms and/or DTCs other than those listed above are present, repair as necessary. If a Symptom(s) and/or DTC(s) listed above is present, perform the Repair Procedure.
REPAIR PROCEDURE: 1. With the vehicle at room temperature 10 - 27 C. (50 to 80 F.), Remove the M-1 circuit fuse for ten minutes to erase DTCs.
2. Install the M-1 fuse and start the vehicle, this will initiate the HVAC system calibration. Allow approximately five minutes for the calibration to complete.
3. Operate the vehicle and HVAC system to verify that Symptoms and/or DTCs are gone. If tapping noise or Blend Stall/Feedback DTCs re-occur, additional diagnosis will be required.
A/C - Low or No Cabin Heat/Engine Overheat
DATE: Feb. 4, 2002
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 07-02-00, DATED June 16, 2000, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES AND NOTED IN THE 2000 TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN MANUAL (PUBLICATION NO. 81-170-00001).
ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDE ADDITIONAL MODELS, ADDITIONAL SYMPTOM AND REVISED PART NUMBER.
SUBJECT: **LOW Or No Cabin Heat, ** Engine Cooling System Fill Procedure
OVERVIEW: This bulletin provides **clarification of** the engine cooling system till procedure.
NOTE : THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A V6 ENGINE.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION: A vehicle may exhibit **low or no cabin heat, ** engine overheating and/or coolant bottle damage after service has been performed on the engine cooling system. This may be caused by lack of complete ** filling or** refilling of the system with coolant/antifreeze.
DIAGNOSIS: When refilling the engine cooling system after any service operation which required a complete or partial draining of the engine coolant, the following Repair Procedure must be used to ensure a complete fill of the engine cooling system. This is a Repair Procedure clarification.
NOTE : **THIS BULLETIN ALSO APPLIES WHEN THE COOLANT LEVEL APPEARS TO BE CORRECT BUT THE CABIN HEAT IS LOW AND/OR WHEN ADDING COOLANT BECAUSE THE COOLANT LEVEL IS VISIBLE BUT BELOW THE COLD FILL LINE (1993-1997 MODEL YEARS) OR BELOW THE MINIMUM LINE (1998 AND LATER MODEL YEARS).**
EQUIPMENT REQUIRED: REPAIR PROCEDURE: CAUTION : MAKE SURE ENGINE COOLING SYSTEM IS COOL BEFORE REMOVING PRESSURE CAP OR ANY HOSE! SEVERE PERSONAL INJURY MAY RESULT FROM ESCAPING HOT COOLANT. THE COOLING SYSTEM IS PRESSURIZED WHEN HOT.
1. Obtain Cooling System filling aid (Special Tool 8195). The device looks like a funnel which attaches onto the filler neck (just as a regular pressure cap does) along with an attached hose clip.
2. Attach filling aid to cooling system filler neck. Use the clip to pinch off the overflow hose attached to the fill neck. Attach a 1-1/2 to 2 meter (four to six foot) long 6.35 mm (1/4 inch) ID clear hose to the bleed valve. Put the end of the hose into a clean container. This is to prevent coolant from spilling onto the accessory drive belts.
NOTE : IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE COOLING SYSTEM AIR BLEED VALVE BE OPENED BEFORE ANY COOLANT IS ADDED TO THE COOLING SYSTEM. FAILURE TO OPEN THE BLEED VALVE FIRST WILL RESULT IN AN INCOMPLETE FILL OF THE SYSTEM.
3. Open the cooling system bleed valve: 1998 Model Years and Later 2.7 Liter Engines: Located on the water outlet connector at the front of the engine.
3.2/3.5 Liter engines: Located on the lower intake manifold, left of center under the upper intake manifold.
1993-1997 Model Years 3.5 Liter engine: Located on the thermostat housing.
3.3 Liter engine: Located on the thermostat housing.
4. Pour a 50/50 mixture of coolant and water into the large side of the filling aid/funnel. Mix the coolant concentrate with distilled, deionized, or reverse-osmosis purified water.
5. Slowly fill the cooling system through the large side of the filling aid. Watch the hose connected to the bleed valve! When a steady stream of coolant comes out of the hose, close the bleed valve and continue filling to the top of the filling aid.
6. 1993-1997 model years: Put a small, clean reservoir (approximately 16 ounce or 1/2 liter capacity) below the end of the overflow hose.
7. Remove the clip from the overflow hose. Any excess coolant in the filling aid will now drain into the overflow section of the coolant bottle or into the small reservoir.
8. 1993-1997 model years: Remove the reservoir and recycle the excess coolant.
9. Remove the filling aid from the fill neck. Ensure that the bottom seal of the cap and the fill neck are free of debris and replace the pressure cap on the coolant bottle.
IMPORTANT : The 1998 and later model year coolant bottle has two chambers. Coolant will normally only be in the inboard (smaller) of the two. The outboard chamber is only to recover coolant in the event of an overheat and should normally be empty (except for the coolant drained from the filling aid. This coolant will be drawn back into the pressurized side of the cooling system over time).
NOTE : COOLING SYSTEM FILL PROCEDURES ARE CRITICAL TO OVERALL COOLING SYSTEM PERFORMANCE.
A/C - Climate Control Supplies No Hot Air
GROUP: Air Conditioning
DATE: Feb. 12, 1999
SUBJECT: No Warm Or Hot Air From The Climate Control System When The Engine Is Warm And The Climate Control Temperature Knob Is Set To Warm Or Hot.
OVERVIEW: This bulletin involves correcting the cause of a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) in the Body Control Module (BCM).
MODELS: 1998 - 1999 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid
NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A MANUAL CLIMATE CONTROL SYSTEM AND REMOTE KEYLESS ENTRY (RKE).
SYMPTOM/CONDITION: No warm or hot air comes from the climate control system when the climate control temperature knob is set to warm or hot with an engine that has been sufficiently warmed up. An "A/C CONTROL DOOR INPUT SHORTED TO BATTERY" DTC may be stored in the BCM (Note : This DTC may or may not be present with this condition due to the internal feature of the BCM that self erases all stored DTCs if the proper conditions are met). Pressing an RKE button at the same time the BCM DTC is active creates this condition. This condition can be induced even if the ignition is in the off position. In some cases when this condition occurs, the cold air from the climate control system will only come out of the panel outlets regardless of the climate control mode knob setting. If while the condition is present, the engine is sufficiently warmed up, the vehicle is entered using an RKE transmitter, and the climate control temperature knob is set to warm or hot, cold air will come from the climate control system. Adjustment of the climate control temperature knob will locate the temperature door to the requested setting until the next time the RKE transmitter is activated.
DIAGNOSIS: With an engine that is sufficiently warmed up and the climate control temperature knob set to warm or hot, press a button on the vehicle's RKE transmitter and verify that cold air is coming from the climate control system. An "A/C CONTROL DOOR INPUT SHORTED TO BATTERY" DTC may be or may not be present in the BCM. Adjust the climate control temperature knob one position in either direction. If the system to goes back to proper operation perform the Repair Procedure,
REPAIR PROCEDURE: THIS REPAIR IS COMPATIBLE WITH DAIMLERCHRYSLER'S MOBILE SERVICE PROGRAM AND DOES NOT REQUIRE HOISTS OR OTHER FULL SERVICE FACILITY SPECIAL EQUIPMENT.
1. Remove the IOD fuse (circuit M1) from the junction block for approximately 60 seconds and then replace it. If the DTC "A/C CONTROL DOOR INPUT SHORTED TO BATTERY" had been present prior to this step it should now be erased. If the DTC does not return, the repair has been completed successfully. If the DTC returns, refer to Test 6A on pages 436 and 437 of the 1998 Chrysler Concorde/Dodge Intrepid, 1999 Chrysler 300M/LHS Body Diagnostic Procedures Manual (Publication No. 81-699-97229) for further diagnosis instructions. After performing Test 6A, remove the IOD fuse for 60 seconds and reinstall.
NOTE: THIS CONDITION CANNOT BE CORRECTED BY ERASING THE DTC UNLESS THE CAUSE OF THE DTC HAS BEEN CORRECTED.
NOTE: THE "A/C CONTROL DOOR INPUT SHORTED TO BATTERY" DTC GETS REPORTED AS "RKE PROGRAM MODE ENTERED WITHOUT REQUEST" BY THE DRB III IN VERSIONS 25.0-28.3. THIS ISSUE WILL BE CORRECTED IN DRB III VERSION 29.0. 29.0 IS TARGETED FOR RELEASE TO THE FIELD BY 2/9/99.
This one calls for reprogramming the car
Heater - Poor Performance/Slow Engine Warm Up
DATE: Oct. 30, 1998
SUBJECT: Poor Heater Performance
At Idle Or Slow
Engine Warm Up
MODELS: 1998 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid
NOTE : THE REPROGRAMMING PROCEDURE FOR THE PCM APPLIES TO VEHICLES BUILT PRIOR TO MAY 12, 1998 (MDH 0512XX).
SYMPTOM/CONDITION: Some owners may describe poor heater performance during stop and go (city) driving or slow engine warm up in cool weather. Heater performance during highway driving will be described as adequate. Low coolant level or excess air in the cooling system can cause these performance problems.
1. Verify engine coagulant level. If low, fill cooling system as described on page 7-13 of the 1998 Concorde/Intrepid service manual (Publication No. 81-270-8140) and proceed with next step.
2. Check the left heater outlet duct under the I/P to verify that its outlets are oriented down toward the customer's foot area. If not, remove the duct and re-orient so that it is. Proceed with next step.
3. Fully warm up the vehicle by allowing the engine to run at 1500-2000 RPM for 15-20 minutes to verify if the low/no heat condition can be duplicated. This should also serve to de-aerate the cooling system.
4. Connect DRB III and verify that the coolant temperature is above 180 F (82 C). If coolant level is okay but engine temperature remains low, remove thermostat per service manual instructions. Inspect thermostat to see if it is propped/stuck open. If propped/stuck open, call STAR Hotline during the vehicle launch period for replacement part. Replace thermostat as described on page 7-19 of the service manual and re-run 2.7L Engine Diagnosis steps 3-4. If not propped/stuck open, call STAR Hotline during the vehicle launch period for further instructions.
5. If coolant temperature is above 180 F (82 C), but heater performance continues to be poor, perform HVAC self-diagnostic on page 24-8 of the service manual. If fault codes are found refer to the appropriate service manual section to correct the fault and re-test.
November, 8, 2008 AT 4:01 AM
Thanks for the super fast response!
I will verify that air has been bled from system. Note, bleed valve was opened while filling and motor was set to high idle during the process. This seems to be the most likely source of the problem due to the numerous TSB's. I will follow-up with results the first of the week.
November, 8, 2008 AT 8:50 AM
It does seem like the common thread and for some reason it is just hard to get the air out of the systems. Which is good I guess since you want a good tight system. But sure makes it tough to bleed. Lord willing that is your problem.
November, 10, 2008 AT 3:04 PM
Success! Hot air at last!
There was indeed air in the system. I removed both inlet and exit hoses from the heater core and flushed to verify flow. Using a section of 3/4" hose connected to the exit side of the heater core, I backfilled with coolant untill fluid exited the inlet side. The inlet side of the heater core was then connected to it's supply tube. I then backfilled the hose that connects to the exit side of the heater core until full. After connecting to the resevoir, I started the engine with the bleed valve open. Only a minimal amount of air escaped over a ten minute period with the engine running a a fast idle.
The apparent key to filling this system without trapping air is to fill slowly and with the bleed valve open.
November, 10, 2008 AT 4:19 PM
Hello -- FANTASTIC
Great job and a success story. You did a lot of maintenance there and genius on your part for the back fill idea.
For some reason that model has an issue with heat/air in the system.