Crank but no start after driving fine the day before

Tiny
VAUGHANLEE
  • MEMBER
  • 2003 FORD EXPEDITION
  • 5.4L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 260,000 MILES
Drove home fine next morning would crank but would not start. Checked fuses and found the OBD connection fuse blown and replaced it. Switched around the relays the only way I could see if it was fuel pump relay. Battery went dead after so many attempts at starting it. The battery was pulled out and left out for over twenty four hours. I believe the codes were cleared because the battery stayed disconnected. Not sure if I can get them back up now because it will not start and drive for the codes to be thrown again. The MIL light does come on but that is normal while the key is in the on position before start. Right? I now have a OBDII/EOBD+ABS scan tool tried to run a diagnostics and could not get any codes. Not sure what to do. I believe it's something in the fuel. Any help will be great help. It is my wife's truck and she needs it to get to work. Cannot afford to put it in a shop and she is really counting on me to get it running. I need help! Thank you for any knowledge that can be given.
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 11:04 PM

9 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
First you must check for fuel pressure and spark to see if one or both are missing. Also, listen for the hum of the fuel pump for one second when you turn on the ignition switch. If you hear that, you will have normal fuel pressure, but the pump may not resume running during cranking.

If you have a scanner that displays live data, look at the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor to see if their signals are listed as missing or "present". Those sensors often do not set a diagnostic fault code just from cranking the engine. Sometimes they only set while a stalled engine is coasting to a stop.
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2016 AT 8:48 AM
Tiny
VAUGHANLEE
  • MEMBER
I do not have a fuel pressure kit, can I check the fuel pressure by unhooking the fuel lines where the fuel filter is and turning the key in the on position? Or is there somewhere on the fuel rail I can check it? And yes I will check the spark today. And can I record live data on the crankshaft position sensor with the engine not running?
Thank you for your time and willingness to work with me on this I am limited in what tools I have so any way you may know how I am open to again thank you. I will check spark now and read the obd2 Manuel on how to record live data.
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2016 AT 9:04 AM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
First thing, try resetting security system. if that does not work check fuses under hood and then check fuel pressure with a gauge auto parts rent it. there is a tap on fuel rail for doing this see links.
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-reset-a-security-system
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

You do not need to run engine for scanning for codes just turn key on.
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2016 AT 9:31 AM
Tiny
VAUGHANLEE
  • MEMBER
Thank you. I was just reading about the reset of the security feature. I will do that now and these other test you have mentioned and get back with you.
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2016 AT 9:36 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Per your question in a previous reply, if the engine is running, the cam and crank sensors are working, so there is no need to check them. It is only when spark and fuel pump / injector pulses are missing that you need to determine which signal is missing.

I must clarify that you can have a crank / no-start due to loss of fuel pressure, loss of spark, or most commonly, loss of both. If you find you have no spark, do not waste your time working in the fuel supply system, but, understand there is going to be fuel pressure because the pump will still run for one second when you turn on the ignition switch. You are not likely to have a separate spark-related problem, and a fuel pump-related problem, at the same time. Also, if you have a failed fuel pump, you can be pretty sure you are going to have spark yet.

It is easy to tell if you have no spark or you have no spark and no injector pulses by simply observing if there is a heavy gas smell at the tail pipe. No gas equals no injector pulses or no fuel pressure, and when you have either of those along with no spark, you know you need to look at what both systems have in common. That is both systems are turned on during engine rotation, (cranking or running), and the engine computer knows that by the signals it gets from the cam and crank sensors.
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2016 AT 10:35 AM
Tiny
VAUGHANLEE
  • MEMBER
Wow! Thank you. You explained that in a way I have never heard it put. It brought some things into a better understanding for me. I have found the number nine fuse in the fuse box to be missing. There is no metal prong connectors in the number nine place for a fuse to even ground to. It is like it is a spare place but the diagram labels the number nine to be the alternator fuse. Not sure what is going on there. Something cannot be right. Is this actually where the alternator fuse goes?
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2016 AT 10:54 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Since your truck is relatively new, (compared to what I drive), there is likely a main generator fuse that is bolted into the fuse box. That is because it has to pass a potentially really high current and simple plug-in terminals cannot handle that. Ford also used a smaller 15-amp fuse for the field current. That is a maximum of three amps, but that circuit also powers the built-in voltage regulator. It is not too uncommon for that 15-amp fuse to blow when the regulator shorts. People find the inoperative generator and replace that, along with its built-in regulator, but they are not aware of the blown fuse.

If there are no terminal for that fuse in the fuse box, that fuse is for an optional circuit that is not on your truck. If it is needed, and the terminal broke off, your battery will run down as you're driving, typically within an hour. We can discuss that if it becomes necessary.

The quick way to tell if the generator is working is the "Battery" warning light turns on when the ignition switch is turned on, then it turns off once the engine is running. You will see the headlights or interior lights dim when you stop the engine. Or, the best way is to measure the battery's voltage with the engine running. It must be between 13.75 and 14.75 volts. There can still be a problem with the generator, but when the voltage is within that acceptable range, that only means it is okay to perform the second half of the tests, and that requires a professional load tester.
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2016 AT 11:14 AM
Tiny
KEN
  • ADMIN
From VAUGHANLEE

Okay upon checking the fuses I found the fuse box diagram for the 2003 Expedition labels the number nine fuse the alternator fuse. But on my expedition the number nine does not have a fuse it is an empty spot without any of the metal prong connectors for the fuse to plug into. It is as if it is a spare space. I do not understand. The diagram clearly reads that it is the alternator fuse. Is this right?
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Thursday, December 22nd, 2016 AT 11:32 AM
Tiny
KEN
  • ADMIN
I think you might be breaking up the wrong tree in the fuse box, does the engine crank over? if so doe it have spark and fuel pressure, injector pulse?

Here is a guide to check the injectors and fuel pressure gauge, you might need to rent one from the parts store or get one from Amazon.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

and

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Please let us know what you find so it will help others.

Best, Ken

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Thursday, December 22nd, 2016 AT 11:39 AM

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