Clutch to the floor

Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
  • 2004 SATURN VUE
  • 2.2L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 230,000 MILES
I spoken with you guys before I had it replaced the master cylinder at the slave cylinder and a clutch kit for $1,800.00 in 2019 if you get days ago I believe it to be December 22nd 2020 my clutch goes to the floor.
after my clutch was repaired I've sent you multiple text and pictures regarding the job that they did and the questions I had about it.
I'm unsure if you receive that documentation as of now, but I want to know within a year why would my clutch go bad.


There was no indication whatsoever. No smell no noise no feeling nothing.

I'm asking you where do I go from here? Please help me
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Monday, December 28th, 2020 AT 1:50 AM

18 Replies

Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • EXPERT
Good morning,

Can you upload the receipt of the repair that was performed?

Yes, it could fail within a year depending on the type of driving you to do every day.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/clutch-symptoms

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/clutch-doesnt-work-sometimes-or-not-at-all

Roy

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Monday, December 28th, 2020 AT 2:03 AM
Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
Attached is receipt.
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Monday, December 28th, 2020 AT 11:21 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • EXPERT
Okay, looks like they covered everything when they did the job.

What warranty did they give you with the repair?

Did you return for a follow up with them on the issue?

Roy
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Monday, December 28th, 2020 AT 1:04 PM
Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
Firestones warranty has expired.
This should not be happening if in fact the repairs were done correctly. I just don't understand.
Where do I go from here?
What's your opinion at this point?
Deductive reasoning where should I start? No lose of fluid. No leaks. No noise. No smells. No vibrations. No indications whatsoever. Only that the clutch went straight to the floor. I can actually get her into first gear with a little effort and she'll jump forward.

Whatever advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated

Could it be as simple as air in the lines.

Note, car listed above is a 5 speed manual baseline.
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Thursday, December 31st, 2020 AT 8:51 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
It could be that one of the new parts failed, it happens, and unfortunately it seems to happen more now than in the past. Do you feel any resistance at all when you step on the pedal? What happens if you pump the clutch pedal a few times? From your description it could be air but it sounds more like something internal to the system failed, you could try bleeding it again and see if it helps.
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Saturday, January 2nd, 2021 AT 6:06 AM
Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
There's no resistance in the pedal. When we begin bleeding there was some resistance then at one point it went straight to the floor again. The bleeder valve it's the fluid is not coming out like it should be at all at some points most of the time and then other times it's just spitting like a little spit spit spit spit that's it. The fluid level in the reservoir does not change by any significant amount.
At this point I went ahead and I'm going to purchase the master cylinder to the slave for $155.00 from AutoZone it comes with the actual rubber tubing and metal. I'm unsure but when I take it off I'm going to blow through it see if they're possibly maybe something stuck in the old one. I'll let you know about that. If not jimmy Christmas what do I do next? Open up the transmission housing and maybe it's the drop bearing or something. I not sure at this point. Thank you for your help. God bless you thank you very much.
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Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 AT 12:30 AM
Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
What's baffling the most is this why would this occur twice. Same issue clutch pedal just goes to the floor no forewarning no smell no feeling no lots of fluids no leaking nothing at all. May 2019 and again December 2020.
May 2019 the master the slave all the lines the clutch kit was all replaced supposedly that's what I paid for anyway.
What would cause us to occur again?
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Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 AT 12:33 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • EXPERT
Okay, the quality of the parts could be an issue. A lot of times, aftermarket parts are cheaper than OEM but do not last as long as the original equipment.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/clutch-doesnt-work-sometimes-or-not-at-all

I could not read the invoice for the type or manufacturer of the master and slave.

Roy

Bleeding

1. Attach a clear line to the bleed screw with the loose end submerged in a small container of clutch fluid.
2. Actuate the clutch pedal 5 times at a normal speed by stroking it all the way to the pedal stop in both directions.
3. Actuate the clutch pedal quickly 10-15 times without bringing the pedal all the way up, 30-40 mm (1.18-1.51 inch) short of stop at pedal.
4. Repeat steps 2-3 5 times.
5. Hold the pedal at up stop and open the bleed screw.
6. Stroke the pedal to the floor normally and close the bleed screw.
7. Lift the pedal to up stop position.
8. Repeat steps 5-7 3 times.

Notice: Refer to Fastener Notice in Cautions and Notices.

9. Tighten the bleed screw.
Tighten the screw to 7 Nm (62 inch lbs.).
10. Remove the bleed line from the bleed screw.

Clutch Master Cylinder Replacement

Removal Procedure

imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

1. Clean the clutch fluid reservoir cap and area around the cap.
2. Remove the clutch fluid reservoir cap and remove enough brake fluid to clear a passage to the clutch master cylinder.
3. Remove the clutch pedal retainer.
4. Remove the clutch master cylinder pushrod from the clutch pedal assembly, 1st design.

imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

5. Remove the clutch master cylinder pushrod from the clutch pedal assembly, 2nd design.

imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

Notice: Refer to Brake Fluid Effects on Paint and Electrical Components Notice in Cautions and Notices.

6. Place a shop towel under the clutch master cylinder in order to catch any fluid loss.
7. Using a pick tool on the strut tower side, disconnect the clutch line from clutch master cylinder.
8. Cap the reservoir and hydraulic lines in order to prevent fluid loss and contamination.

imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

Important: Do not damage the pushrod boot when sliding it through the front of the dash.

9. Remove the clutch master cylinder mounting nuts and slide the clutch fluid reservoir up and out.
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Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 AT 2:44 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
With no fluid coming out of the bleeder I would say the master cylinder is the issue. With it full of fluid you should get a good shot of fluid out of the bleeder on every pump of the pedal. It sounds like the internal cup seal on the piston has failed or is bypassing fluid. The receipt you posted showed they replaced the parts, however if they used rebuilt parts it's possible that they were not high quality rebuilds. There is usually some internal wear and corrosion inside the bore of the master cylinder and if the rebuilder doesn't either bore out and sleeve or at least bore it so the entire area is clean and smooth it only takes one time for the piston seal to go past that area and get damaged. The seals are highlighted in red in the image. If they are damaged in any way the clutch stops working correctly. I somewhat doubt the issue is the internal slave as they normally leak when they fail.

There is a TSB on the clutch bleeding for your vehicle if the pedal isn't acting correctly. It involves using a handheld vacuum pump to pull any air out of the system, It might help.

This bulletin is being revised to add model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-07-31-002A (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle). This bulletin is being issued to inform dealers of an improved procedure to aid in the ease of bleeding the clutch hydraulic system for the above listed vehicles. This procedure can be used anytime air is introduced into the hydraulic system. Following this procedure may also reduce the number of unnecessary parts replaced for low clutch pedal reserve and high shift effort.

Verify that all the lines and fittings are dry and secure.
Clean the dirt and grease from the reservoir cap in order to ensure that no foreign substances enter the system.
Remove the reservoir cap.
Fill the reservoir to the proper level with the required fluid.

Attach the J 43485 (Adapter) to the J 35555 (Mity Vac), or equivalent.

Brake fluid will deteriorate the rubber on J 43485. Use a clean shop cloth to wipe away the fluid after each use.
Place and hold the adapter on the reservoir filler neck to ensure a tight fit. In some cases, the adapter will fit into the reservoir opening.
Apply a vacuum of 51-68 kPa (15-20 hg) and remove the adapter.
Refill the reservoir to the proper level.
If needed, refill the reservoir and continue to pull a vacuum until no more bubbles can be seen in the reservoir or until the fluid level no longer drops.
Pump the clutch pedal until firm.
Add additional fluid if needed.
Test drive vehicle to ensure proper operation.

The J35555 is a standard hand vacuum pump, There are a few types out there. I prefer the metal versions but most of them will work just fine. The special adapter J 43485 is nothing real special, just a tapered rubber cone with a hole in the center to allow for a seal on the top of the master cylinder. A simple cheaper version is a common sink stopper with a small piece of tubing glued into it. Just like the expensive ones brake fluid will damage it, but the easy solution is to use it, then rinse it off with water and dry it.

I would try that bleeding method first. Unfortunately with the state of parts these days it's becoming a big gamble as to what you get in new and remanufactured parts. I have taken "brand new" parts and found them defective right out of the box, it's very possible that is also part of the reason it failed so soon. It's also possible that given that some parts of the system are plastic, that one of the seals or clips or even that part itself is letting in air and you no longer have a working clutch.

When this occurred did it go from, clutch worked fine one day and the next it failed or has it been getting worse over a length of time? A sudden failure would point more to a seal or part failure while a slower failure would point more toward air entering through a small leak in an O-ring or a loose clip not holding the parts together tightly.
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Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 AT 3:27 AM
Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
First off I have to say thank you very much for you being here for me.
I have replaced the master cylinder.
I bleed the system according to instructions provided by multiple sources.
I have an issue.
The push rod ie, the pedal will only go approximately 2 in down and it's really hard it just that's it and I cannot get in a gear of course now I can't even start it because it won't go all the way down to hit the button you understand what I mean start the car.

My question is, what is it that is stopping it seems like there's too much pressure in my system now?

What did I do wrong?

Help please.
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Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 AT 3:34 PM
Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
Could it be that when I installed the value piece that it's into the housing that goes to the slave could I have maybe maybe not connected it correctly so that they didn't get into each other's right? I don't know how to explain it it has the valve that you stick into the housing and then there's a little pin from the slave that's inside the housing that sticks into that could it I don't think it's that but because that would stop the pressure of the fluid correct the fluid wouldn't be coming out correctly is that correct? I am so confused I'm so confused at this point.
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Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 AT 3:35 PM
Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
FYI To ASEMaster6371 my Vue had this issue back in 2018. Everything was replaced at the master the slave the clutch kit. Now my vehicle is doing the same thing it just went to the floor the clutch just went to the floor no indication whatsoever.
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Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 AT 3:38 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • EXPERT
If you remove the slave cylinder, does the pedal travel further?

It does not matter how old the parts are. Even new ones fail early.

Roy
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Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 AT 3:47 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • EXPERT
As Roy asked, it sounds like the slave cylinder may be fully extended and cannot travel any farther. If that is the issue then it would stop the pedal from moving. It would also point to a possible failure in the pressure plate as the root cause of the problem. I would start by opening the bleeder and verifying that you have full travel in the master cylinder by releasing the fluid. If the master now moves and you can push the clutch down then the actuator is either stuck in place or the pressure plate has an issue. I would then use a small camera to look inside the clutch area on the transmission and see what the slave and pressure plate are doing. If the pressure plate has failed or something has jammed the slave cylinder it should be easy to see. You can get cameras like that which plug into a phone or tablet and let you go into the case and look around. I seem to recall there is a notch on the case that would give you access to the clutch area.
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Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 AT 7:45 PM
Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
All of you thank you for your help. This is what I found out. GMC discontinued this part. Unable to purchase through the dealership.
I purchased a master cylinder from O'Reilly's but it was at the wrong angle. I'm unsure what you call that little round enclosed metal piece that goes to the metal line just outside of your master cylinder that comes through your firewall. At any rate what happened was it was at the wrong angle, t would not clear my brake lines nor go up against the wheel well firewall where it is to be. So I took it back to O'Reilly's what happened was their employee and I together torqued to put in correct position for insulation. Make sure you take your old one with you so you have the right angle! This was not easy at all it was torqued on by the manufacturer. To get to the concussion I went ahead and I installed this master cylinder. She's running she's running she's running after little bumps and bruises and scratches on I got to say the worst part about this job was getting the battery and the fuses all those lines out of the way so that I was able to put the line up against the wall. There's a lot of maneuvering to do and these pieces are just plastic in their very easily broken. Another thing is: Do not lose the clip that goes on the valve that goes into the transmission housing. You will be unable to find it anywhere trust me I checked. Similar ones don't clip as hard if that makes sense, thank you guys, thank you, thank you, thank you! I hope everybody learns from this because I got bumps and bruises and scratches from doing this and I appreciate you guys being there for me God bless us all.
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Thursday, January 14th, 2021 AT 5:06 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • EXPERT
You are welcome.

We are always glad to help.

Roy
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Thursday, January 14th, 2021 AT 5:10 AM
Tiny
GABBYGILBO
  • MEMBER
Being able to correspond with someone that does not have an ulterior motive is priceless.
Thanks for just being there.
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Thursday, January 14th, 2021 AT 6:28 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • EXPERT
Anytime.

Roy
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Thursday, January 14th, 2021 AT 6:51 PM

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