Cannot resolve code P0420

Tiny
HVDES
  • MEMBER
  • 2005 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX
  • 3.8L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 184,000 MILES
Hi, I have been battling this P0420 code on my car (GT model) for a while now and was hoping someone would have some more insight on the subject.
- I have replaced both oxygen sensors as well as the catalytic converter.
- Replaced the PCV valve.
- I have put in new plugs and wires.
- I have cleaned the MAF sensor and air filter.

When driving, the car has a hard time accelerating. Especially up-hills and when accelerating to highway speeds, there is a ticking noise that sounds similar to a card in the spokes of a bicycle but is not heard when idling. Also, when I start the car it fires up right away then will cut immediately off if I do not tap the gas pedal.
Could it be a bad MAF sensor? I tried to test it with a multimeter but it is nearly impossible with the harness that it has.
Anyway, thanks.
Thursday, July 26th, 2018 AT 7:29 PM

11 Replies

Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Good morning.

What brand catalytic converter did you use for the replacement?

The noise could be a valve tap from a valve issue with the motor. You need to have that checked as it may be causing a misfire and that will overheat the catalytic converter and cause the code as well.

Roy

P0420
Descriptor
Engine Controls
Probable Causes
Catalytic Converter
Catalytic Converter Bank 1 Blocked
Catalytic Converter Bank 1 Damaged
Diagnose Other DTCs First
Engine Misfire Detected
Engine Oil or Coolant Consumption Excessive
Exhaust Leak
Exhaust System Damaged
Exhaust System Hardware Loose or Missing
Fuel Mixture Lean
Fuel Mixture Rich
Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Bank 1 Sensor 2
Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Bank 1 Sensor 2 Damaged
Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Bank 1 Sensor 2 Loose
Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Bank 1 Sensor 2 Pigtail or Wiring Harness Contacting Exhaust or Ground
Oxygen Sensor (O2S) or Wiring Harness Damaged
Three Way Catalytic Converter (TWC) Does Not Meet Manufacturer Specifications
Weak or Poor Spark
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Friday, July 27th, 2018 AT 5:45 AM
Tiny
HVDES
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
I do not think it is valve tap as I only hear it when I am above about 2,500-3,000 rpm's and it is not very loud but, the converter I put on is from eBay and I think it is this exact one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-2005-2006-Pontiac-Grand-Prix-3-8L-Direct-Fit-Catalytic-Converter-/253764966466?hash=item3b15921842
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Friday, July 27th, 2018 AT 3:14 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Okay.

It looks like this one does not have enough precious metals to keep the light out. That is the issues with the cheap converters.

Walker and Bosal are the only ones we use due to come backs from the 420 returning.

Roy
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Friday, July 27th, 2018 AT 3:18 PM
Tiny
HVDES
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
But the lack of quality of the converter should not be causing the car to accelerate slow and strangely would it? The car also seems to show all the symptoms listed here for a bad MAF sensor.

https://www.carsdirect.com/car-repair/how-to-tell-if-you-have-a-faulty-mass-airflow-sensor?src=20&lnk=eyzsD2QGsYg-jBWJdbuvzn%2Fj4mDqmhlHtw

Yesterday I unplugged the senor and drove it down the street to see if there was a difference in how it accelerates and it seemed to be running the same.

Thanks
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Friday, July 27th, 2018 AT 3:27 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Okay, the original question was your 420 code. We through that the sluggish.

I would start by doing a fuel pressure test to be sure you have enough fuel for the injectors to work correctly.

also, I would do a compression test to see if there is a issue with the timing chain.

Roy

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-engine-compression

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Friday, July 27th, 2018 AT 4:33 PM
Tiny
HVDES
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
I have tested the car with a scanner and it says all sensors and systems passed except the EVAP system, but I do not have any codes related to it. Do you think a bad solenoid or vapor canister could be causing these problems?
Thanks again.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, July 28th, 2018 AT 11:05 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
They are only monitors. That does not mean there is no problems with those systems.

You need to do the two tests I suggested in my previous answer.

Roy
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, July 29th, 2018 AT 5:51 AM
Tiny
GJGOGOL
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
ASEMASTER6371, how does one know if a cat has enough precious metals?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, August 21st, 2023 AT 2:34 PM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 42,973 POSTS
I believe all catalytic converters have precious metals, here is more information:

Catalytic converters are devices used in the exhaust systems of vehicles to reduce harmful emissions by catalyzing various chemical reactions. They contain a combination of precious metals that act as catalysts to facilitate these reactions. The most common precious metals found inside a catalytic converter include:

Platinum (Pt): Platinum is one of the primary precious metals used in catalytic converters. It helps catalyze the conversion of carbon monoxide (CO) and nitrogen oxides (NOx) into less harmful substances like carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrogen (N2), and water (H2O).

Palladium (Pd): Palladium is another key component of catalytic converters. It plays a crucial role in converting nitrogen oxides (NOx) and unburned hydrocarbons into nitrogen (N2), carbon dioxide (CO2), and water (H2O).

Rhodium (Rh): Rhodium is less commonly used but still an essential component. It aids in reducing nitrogen oxides (NOx) by catalyzing their conversion into nitrogen (N2) and oxygen (O2).

These precious metals are often supported on a ceramic or metal substrate, forming a honeycomb-like structure that maximizes the surface area for catalytic reactions to occur. The combination of these metals allows catalytic converters to significantly reduce the emissions of harmful pollutants from vehicle exhaust gases. Due to the value of these precious metals, catalytic converters are unfortunately also targeted by thieves for their scrap value.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2023 AT 10:42 AM
Tiny
GJGOGOL
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
KEN L - Thank you for your reply. ASEMASTER6371 mentioned that the cat may not have enough precious metals to keep the light out. I am looking for a new cat and I don't see anywhere where the seller states "how much" precious metals are used. I am "assuming" that if it is either EPA or CARB compliant, they have sufficient metals in them. I could be wrong, thus my question.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2023 AT 11:28 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 42,973 POSTS
It seems like you're talking about catalytic converters for vehicles. Catalytic converters are emission control devices that contain precious metals like platinum, palladium, and rhodium. These metals help convert harmful pollutants in exhaust gases into less harmful substances. The effectiveness of a catalytic converter is indeed dependent on the presence and quality of these precious metals.

When it comes to purchasing a catalytic converter, especially if you're looking for a replacement, there are a few key points to consider:

EPA and CARB Compliance: The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) regulate emission standards for vehicles in the United States. Catalytic converters that are EPA or CARB compliant meet specific emissions requirements and generally contain the necessary amount of precious metals to effectively reduce pollutants.

Seller's Information: Reputable sellers of catalytic converters often provide information about the metals used in their products. This can include details about the type and quantity of precious metals present in the catalytic converter.

OEM vs. Aftermarket: Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) catalytic converters are those made by the same manufacturer as your vehicle. These are typically more reliable in terms of emissions control. Aftermarket catalytic converters may vary in quality and effectiveness, so it's important to research and choose a reputable brand.

Warranty: Consider purchasing catalytic converters that come with warranties. This indicates that the manufacturer stands by the quality of their product.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
+1
Thursday, August 24th, 2023 AT 10:18 AM

Please login or register to post a reply.

Sponsored links