Transmission problem

Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
  • 2004 SATURN VUE
  • 5 CYL
  • AWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 138,000 MILES
I have a 2004 saturn vue awd 2.2l
I was driving it yesterday and I had to let off the throttle because it started to rev up in rpms like the clutches were slipping, then the check engine light came on. I scaned it with my Genisys computer and it came up with p1888 code.
Any help would be appressiated in what step to take to find this problem.
I tried to search the web and there isn't anything to help with this code on the saturn vue.
Thanks
Tom
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 12:33 PM

19 Replies

Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
There is the code description and trouble tree for your code let me know what you find.
DTC P1888

Circuit Description
The transmission control module (TCM) uses the torque converter clutch (TCC) enable solenoid valve to hydraulically select whether the TCC pressure control solenoid valve will control the fluid pressure to apply the forward and reverse clutches or the fluid pressure to apply the torque converter clutch. The TCC enable solenoid valve is attached to the control valve assembly. The TCM compares engine and transmission inputs to determine if the solenoid should be enabled. The TCM then enables the solenoid by providing a ground. The TCM monitors the status of the low control circuit and can detect a short to power or a short to ground/open.

When the TCM detects an open or short to ground, DTC 1888 sets. DTC P1888 is a type A DTC.

Conditions for Running the DTC:

* The engine speed is greater than 500 RPM for 5 seconds.
* The TCC enable solenoid valve high side driver is enabled.
* The TCC enable solenoid valve is disabled.

Conditions for Setting the DTC:
The TCM detects an open, or a short to ground for 0.36 seconds

Action Taken When the DTC Sets

* The TCM requests the ECM to illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL).
* The TCM limits the commanded speed ratio to 1.6 or less.
* The TCM inhibits TCC engagement.
* The TCM turns the power off to the TCC enable solenoid valve. This results in no TCC engagement.
* The TCM no longer inhibits shifting between REVERSE and DRIVE when moving.
* The TCM commands maximum pressure to the input clutch.
* The TCM freezes garage shift transmission adaptive functions.
* The TCM freezes torque converter clutch (TCC) transmission adaptive functions.
* The ECM records the operating conditions when the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met. The ECM stores this information as Freeze Frame and Failure Records.
* The TCM records the operating conditions when the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met. The TCM stores this information as Failure Records.
* The TCM stores DTC P1888 in TCM history.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

* The ECM turns OFF the MIL after the third consecutive drive trip in which the TCM does not send a MIL illumination request.
* A scan tool can clear the MIL/DTC.
* The TCM clears the DTC from TCM history if the vehicle completes 40 warm-up cycles without an emission-related diagnostic fault occurring.
* The TCM cancels the DTC default actions when the ignition switch is OFF long enough in order to power down the TCM.

Diagnostic Aids

* Inspect the connectors at the TCM, the transmission, and all other circuit connecting points for an intermittent condition.
* Inspect the circuit wiring for an intermittent condition.
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 4:40 PM
Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
Would this cause my saturn vue to idle rough and stall sometimes
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 5:34 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
If the tcc wasn't working correctly that could cause the engine to stall yes. Also as far the rough idle is it only rough at idle?
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 5:55 PM
Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
Yes it is only rough at idle when it is warm. When it is cold it idles great.
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 8:29 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
Could be a vacuum leak causing the rough idle so the rpms are jumping around at idle it's not just a vibration?I would work on the transmission code first.
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 8:38 PM
Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
I put new clutches and forward and reverse pistons in it about 3 weeks ago.
I bought the car 4 weeks ago and it quit moving forward the day I bought it.
My question is if the tcc solenoid is bad would this be the reason my forward clutch pack was bad?
I checked the line pressure while driving and it was good untill I kicked it down and the fluid pressure droped untill I let off the gas enough for it to quit slipping.
I am new to this transmission but I have rebuilt a few others so consider me a learner.
Thanks
Tom
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 8:42 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
If the transmission was slipping then the belt pulleys etc is most likely damaged it's hard to see the damage. When the transmission first came out saturn was having us replace the whole transmission then they had us repair it like belt etc then they just had us replace the side cover which contains the belt input output shaft belt clutches etc. The clutches going bad is usually caused by a bad valve body or a bad pump in the transmission. Not the tcc so you only checked the running transmission pressure?Sound's like you have a pressure issue since you said the pressure dropped and the clutches were slipping. The tcc doesn't control the pressure for the forward or reverse clutches.I have seen more valve body issues then pump issues with the pressure. So how much transmission pressure were you getting when you checked it?To check it right you need a tech2 scan tool with the correct software.
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 8:58 PM
Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
I don't know if the clutches were slipping it just felt like it
when you kick it down it just sounds like it revs up and don't pull hard untill you start letting off the throttle alittle.
Are you saying my Genisys computer won't read the pressure right?
I have never drove a cvt trans before so I don't know the exact fell and sound it should have.
But it don't fell right to me.
Thanks
Tom
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 9:09 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
You have to use a special transmission pressure tester that reads really high in the pressure port on the transmission then you use the tech2 scanner to command the line pressure solenoid to different values and see if the pressure is within the right pressure. That transmission is a piece of junk I remember when I went to factory training for the vue and saw the transmission for the first time and I knew it was going to be trouble. Very common for the side cover to fail I have replaced valve body's and pumps. If you make a repair inside the transmission side cover etc you have to do a pressure test. Otherwise you could have to the same repair twice and fix what caused the part you replaced in the first place. It's really hard to diagnose a pressure issue without that pressure gauge and a tech2.
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Friday, March 25th, 2011 AT 9:27 PM
Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
I just hooked the scanner up and took it for a drive and I just got 2 more codes but the p1888 code is gone.
The new codes are P0717 and P0701
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Saturday, March 26th, 2011 AT 12:57 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
The P0717 code is for the input speed sensor I posted the code description and trouble tree for it. The code P0701 I posted the code description and trouble tree let me know what you find.
DTC P0717

Circuit Description
The input speed sensor (ISS) is a permanent magnet generator. The ISS sensor is mounted inside the transmission, under the control valve body cover. The sensor faces the input shaft speed sensor reluctor ring assembly. As the reluctor ring assembly rotates, an AC voltage is induced and transmitted to the transmission control module (TCM). The AC voltage level and the number of pulses increase as the speed of the reluctor ring assembly increases. The TCM converts the AC voltage into a digital signal. The TCM uses the input speed signal to help determine line pressure, transmission ratio control patterns and TCC apply pressure and timing.

If the TCM detects no input shaft speed when there is vehicle speed in a drive gear range, DTC P0717 sets. DTC P0717 is a type A DTC.

Conditions for Running the DTC

* No OSS DTCs P0722 or P0723.
* No transmission range switch DTCs P0705, P1756, or P1758.
* No engine torque DTC P1779.
* The engine speed is greater than 500 RPM for 5 seconds.
* The selected range is not PARK or NEUTRAL.
* The engine torque is between 30 - 300 Nm (22 - 221 ft. Lbs.).
* The transmission output shaft speed is 400 RPM or greater.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
The transmission input shaft speed is 100 RPM or less for 5 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets

* The TCM requests the ECM to illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL).
* The TCM moves the speed ratio towards a target ratio and then freezes ratio changes.
* The TCM discontinues use of the closed loop ratio control algorithm. This causes the speed ratio to be defaulted and possibly not accurate. The resulting open loop control may or may not provide optimum ratio performance.
* The TCM commands maximum pressure to the input clutch.
* The TCM calculates input shaft speed from the output shaft speed sensor and the commanded speed ratio.
* The TCM commands a line pressure increase for all operating conditions.
* The TCM freezes garage shift transmission adaptive functions.
* The TCM freezes main line pressure transmission adaptive functions.
* The ECM records the operating conditions when the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met. The ECM stores this information as Freeze Frame and Failure Records.
* The TCM records the operating conditions when the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met. The TCM stores this information as Failure Records.
* The TCM stores DTC P0717 in TCM history.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

* The ECM turns OFF the MIL after the third consecutive drive trip in which the TCM does not send a MIL illumination request.
* A scan tool can clear the MIL/DTC.
* The TCM clears the DTC from TCM history if the vehicle completes 40 warm-up cycles without an emission related diagnostic fault occurring.
* The TCM cancels the DTC default actions when the ignition switch is OFF long enough in order to power down the TCM.

Diagnostic Aids

* Ensure the ISS is properly installed in the transmission.
* Inspect the connectors at the TCM, the transmission, and all other circuit connecting points for an intermittent condition.
* Inspect the circuit wiring for an intermittent condition.

Test Description
The numbers below refer to the step numbers on the diagnostic table.

3. The resistance measurement will not change if either the ISS high signal circuit or the ISS low signal circuit, but not both, is shorted to ground. The vehicle speed detector in the TCM and the ISS are matched in such a way that an open or a short to ground in the ISS low signal circuit will not usually cause a loss of speed signal or a DTC P0717 to set.

6. This step isolates the short between the ISS and the wiring.

12. Refer to the latest procedures for TCM reprogramming.

DTC P0701

Circuit Description

Modules that are connected to the CAN serial data circuits monitor each other for serial data communications during normal vehicle operation. Operating information and commands are exchanged among the modules. The modules have prerecorded information about messages that are exchanged on the serial data circuits. The supervised and periodic messages are used by the receiving module as an availability, and state of health indicator from the transmitting module. If the engine control module (ECM) detects a message that indicates a loss of communication, invalid or corrupted serial data, or an active malfunction in the transmission control module (TCM), that requires ECM intervention, DTC P0701 sets.

DTC Descriptor

This diagnostic procedure supports the following DTC:

* DTC P0701 Transmission Control System Performance.

Conditions for Running the DTC

* The ignition is in any of the following positions:
* Unlock
* Accessory
* Run
* Crank
* OFF, but the ECM has not powered down
* The ignition 1 voltage is more than 9 Volts.
* Depending on the ignition mode, an engine run time of more than 1-3 seconds is required for certain messages.
* This DTC runs continuously within the enabling conditions.

Conditions for Setting the DTC

* The TCM has an active malfunction and is requesting ECM intervention. OR
* Loss of communication between the ECM and the TCM. OR
* Invalid serial data between the ECM and the TCM. OR
* Loss of the state of health message between the ECM and the TCM. OR
* An active vehicle speed malfunction in the TCM.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets

* The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) when the diagnostic runs and fails.
* The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The control module stores this information in the Freeze Frame/Failure Records.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

* The control module turns OFF the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) after 3 consecutive ignition cycles that the diagnostic runs and does not fail.
* A current DTC, Last Test Failed, clears when the diagnostic runs and passes.
* A history DTC clears after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles, if no failures are reported by this or any other emission related diagnostic.
* Clear the MIL and the DTC with a scan tool.

Diagnostic Aids

A module which loses power during the current ignition cycle, will have a Loss of Communication DTC set by the other modules that require information from the failed module.

If the TCM, using a faulty manifold absolute pressure (MAP) signal, calculates an invalid torque value, the TCM will command ECM intervention and set a DTC P0701.

If there is an active vehicle speed malfunction in the TCM, DTC P0701 will set.

If the ECM's ignition 1 voltage circuit, that is used to wake up the module is open, the TCM may set a DTC U2105 and request a limp-home mode, which will result in DTC P0701 also being set.
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Saturday, March 26th, 2011 AT 6:30 PM
Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
I checked everything and all the wiring is checking good.
I drove the car again this morning and I got a code p0741
When I first started driving the car I got about 3 miles when it went to like neutral and you could only go about 30mph Then I turned on a side road and got on the gas and I took it to 80mph intill I let off the gas to get a steady mph then it would go to like neutral
again. Intill I get to about 30mph and then I could keep going.
If you keep on the gas it will keep going.
Would the speed sensors cause the torque converter to slip and stick off?
Thanks
Tom
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Monday, March 28th, 2011 AT 1:25 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
I have seen bad speed sensors make the speedometer go up to 80mph giving it gas with the car not moving. Bad speed sensors will make it do all kinds of crazy stuff. They had a problem with this black gel building up also around the sensor's and valve body causing interference to the speed sensors etc. The input and output speed sensors are wired together and must be replaced as a pair. So you can't get any bad reading on the sensor?
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Monday, March 28th, 2011 AT 3:28 PM
Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
I ordered new speed sensors not bad $52.00 dealer item they will be in tomorrow.
But the speedometer seems to be fine. I am going to pull the valve body and clean it again and then I am going to flush the trans and cooler with my transmission spx otc flush machine.
Is the anyway I can check the ohms on the rest of the solenoids and sensors in the valve body? If so what ohms should they be?
Thanks
Tom
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Monday, March 28th, 2011 AT 5:21 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
I gave you the resistance values I would just worry about the solenoid's.
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Tuesday, March 29th, 2011 AT 6:51 AM
Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
Ok I checked all the sensors and solenoids and everything was in spec. Except for the Ratio control motor (RCM)
From the pins were in the 46 ohms range and they should have been between 20-30 ohms from pins 19 to 10 17 18 20 except 19 to 20 was 23 ohms.
Should I replace it?
Thanks
Tom
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Wednesday, March 30th, 2011 AT 4:48 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
Here's what I would do use your ohm's meter to trace down which pin's on the actual ratio control motor they are. Then remove the bus plate then check the reading on those pin's at the ratio control motor with it isolated to the ratio control motor itself. Then check the pin's from the harness side of the bus plate to the side where those pins hook to the ratio control motor to make sure the bus plate isn't the reason for the high ratio control motor reading's.
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Wednesday, March 30th, 2011 AT 5:44 PM
Tiny
TECATE-330
  • MEMBER
Ok I took the car for a drive and the light came back on with a code p1888 and while driving I had the scanner hooked up and the tcc enable solenoid is staying disengaged at all times.
When engine is off key is on I will clear the code then turn the key off for 30 seconds and turn it back on and the engine light will not go out.
Did they have a lot of problems with the valve bodys?
I was thinking of replacing the whole valve body because they don't sell just the solenoids.
New valve body is $676.48
Or should I start with the tcm?
I can't get the car to give me anymore codes. I drove it for 25 miles
Thanks
Tom
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Thursday, March 31st, 2011 AT 7:11 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
I replaced some valve body's not a whole lot because of pressure issue's not solenoid issues.I wouldn't replace the valve body without following the trouble tree for the code you have or you will just be throwing part's at it. So how does it shift?I posted the code description for p1888 and the trouble tree for it follow the trouble tree and let me know what you find.

DTC P1888

Circuit Description
The transmission control module (TCM) uses the torque converter clutch (TCC) enable solenoid valve to hydraulically select whether the TCC pressure control solenoid valve will control the fluid pressure to apply the forward and reverse clutches or the fluid pressure to apply the torque converter clutch. The TCC enable solenoid valve is attached to the control valve assembly. The TCM compares engine and transmission inputs to determine if the solenoid should be enabled. The TCM then enables the solenoid by providing a ground. The TCM monitors the status of the low control circuit and can detect a short to power or a short to ground/open.

When the TCM detects an open or short to ground, DTC 1888 sets. DTC P1888 is a type A DTC.

Conditions for Running the DTC:

* The engine speed is greater than 500 RPM for 5 seconds.
* The TCC enable solenoid valve high side driver is enabled.
* The TCC enable solenoid valve is disabled.

Conditions for Setting the DTC:
The TCM detects an open, or a short to ground for 0.36 seconds

Action Taken When the DTC Sets

* The TCM requests the ECM to illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL).
* The TCM limits the commanded speed ratio to 1.6 or less.
* The TCM inhibits TCC engagement.
* The TCM turns the power off to the TCC enable solenoid valve. This results in no TCC engagement.
* The TCM no longer inhibits shifting between REVERSE and DRIVE when moving.
* The TCM commands maximum pressure to the input clutch.
* The TCM freezes garage shift transmission adaptive functions.
* The TCM freezes torque converter clutch (TCC) transmission adaptive functions.
* The ECM records the operating conditions when the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met. The ECM stores this information as Freeze Frame and Failure Records.
* The TCM records the operating conditions when the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met. The TCM stores this information as Failure Records.
* The TCM stores DTC P1888 in TCM history.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

* The ECM turns OFF the MIL after the third consecutive drive trip in which the TCM does not send a MIL illumination request.
* A scan tool can clear the MIL/DTC.
* The TCM clears the DTC from TCM history if the vehicle completes 40 warm-up cycles without an emission-related diagnostic fault occurring.
* The TCM cancels the DTC default actions when the ignition switch is OFF long enough in order to power down the TCM.

Diagnostic Aids

* Inspect the connectors at the TCM, the transmission, and all other circuit connecting points for an intermittent condition.
* Inspect the circuit wiring for an intermittent condition.
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Thursday, March 31st, 2011 AT 7:44 PM

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