Truck will not start

Tiny
ROBERTD123
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Well that didn't work. So now I'm thinking fuel filter might also be clogged up. When I pulled the fuel injector for cylinder three I noticed there was some great on both of the o-rings.
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Wednesday, February 20th, 2019 AT 4:45 PM
Tiny
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Are you saying the charging system is not working? Once the engine is running, battery voltage must be between 13.75 and 14.75 volts. If it stays at 12.6 or less, we need to diagnose the charging system. Computers are very intolerant of low system voltage and will set random fault codes. Also, since low system voltage adversely affects the performance of injectors, which in turn leads to increased emissions, that will turn on the Check Engine light.

The most common cause of code 203 is a spread terminal in the connector for that injector or in the connector that sits between the engine wiring harness and the one on the body. Look for corrosion between those two mating terminals too. If you think the injector itself is at fault, switch it with that from a different cylinder. Erase the fault code, then see if the code sets again for the same cylinder or the one you moved the suspect injector to.

You should also get a code 303 for cylinder three misfire if the injector stops firing, although that might not set right away. Code 203 doesn't specify a break in the electrical circuit like code 268 does. Part of the strategy is the computer watches the current flow ramp up over time. When it reaches a strong enough magnetic field to pull the valve open, there is a noticeable drop in the rate current increase. The computer can tell by that sudden change exactly when the valve opens, then it can calculate the number of milliseconds left before it turns that current off. If it doesn't see that valve opening, it may set code 203, or any of those for the other cylinders, and that weak opening can be due to low system voltage. The injector may not open at all, but more likely it will open late, resulting in too little fuel to that one cylinder. That might result in a misfire and a code 303.

I drew you a sad graph below to show the voltage and current relationship for an injector. As of today, the computers can only modify how long the injectors are held open based on the front oxygen sensor readings for the two sides of the engine, not for an individual cylinder. If cylinder three is running lean, the unburned oxygen will be detected in the left bank, and the computer will request more fuel from all four injectors on that side. It doesn't know which cylinder is responsible, just that something needs to be tweaked on that side.

Be aware too that for any fault code to set, there is always a very long list of conditions that must be met, and one of those conditions is that certain other codes can't already be set. There's two fairly common examples of this. The first is when a defect is detected for something used for reference, anything compared to that reference won't be tested, so no fault code will be set. Consider the intake air temperature sensor and the coolant temperature sensor. The Engine Computer knows that after sitting for more than six hours, those two sensors had better be reading the same temperature. If you unplug the intake air temperature sensor, the computer will detect the open circuit and set the code for "intake air temperature sensor voltage high", meaning it's stuck at the full 5.0 volts. It knows it can't rely on that obviously-incorrect reading to compare to the reading for the coolant temperature sensor, so if that one just goes out-of-range, that won't be tested or detected. You may not get a fault code for the coolant temperature sensor until the intake air temperature sensor circuit is repaired; in this case, plugged back in. Then, the continuous self-tests will resume, and if there really is some problem with the coolant temperature sensor, that is when it will finally be detected, and a new fault code will set. This happens real often on GM anti-lock brake systems when the customer waits too long to have it repaired. That gives the vehicle time to develop multiple problems, but after the first one sets a fault code, all other related tests are halted. Finally the customer has the first one repaired, then the self-tests resume, and the next problem shows up right away. That leads to lots of frustration on the part of the mechanic, and customers incorrectly assume the problem wasn't diagnosed properly.

The second time fault codes may not set is when multiple problems are causing the same symptom. This happens most commonly with single-cylinder misfires. If the screen in an injector becomes plugged, the blocked fuel flow is not detected directly, but the computer sees the resulting slow-down of the crankshaft's rotational speed for that instant. By knowing the position of the crankshaft, and when that slow-down occurs, it can tell which cylinder is responsible. It is that same slow-down that we feel when we feel a misfire, but the computer can detect much more subtle changes than we can feel. Now if you come along and short out that spark plug wire, or the spark plug gap becomes shorted with carbon or oil, the cylinder is already misfiring due to the injector, so no additional fault code will set related to the lack of spark. You might figure out from looking at the oxygen sensor voltages that the injector is causing a problem, you replace it, and still have a misfire that requires more diagnosis. This is real common on higher-mileage GM cars. I mentioned that Chrysler buys their injectors from Bosch in flow-matched sets, and they have almost no problems. In fact, to my knowledge, no other manufacturer has common, recurring injector problems, except for GM. They just grab a handful out of a big bin and toss them into an engine as it comes down the assembly line, with no regard for matching the flow rates. That rarely causes a problem at first when the vehicle is new, but by the time it hits around 100,000 miles and it's out-of-warranty, it is real common for one or two injectors to start flowing a little less fuel than the rest. This can result in setting a "lean exhaust" fault code that is almost impossible to diagnose. As it becomes worse, you can have a single-cylinder misfire fault code, and you might not feel that misfire.

The solution to that problem is to install a set of rebuilt injectors that come in flow-matched sets. Even if you've figured out the injector is the cause of the problem, if you install one new one or one used one, you really run the risk of it not flowing the same amount of fuel as the others, and it might not solve the misfire. Jim Linder used to have an injector rebuilding shop next to the Indianapolis Speedway, and he put on real high-level training classes all over the country. On his web site they described the ten most common injector-related problems, and eight of them referred to problems on GM vehicles. My reason for describing this is if you plan on replacing just one injector, you have a very good chance of introducing this new variable and a new problem that defies diagnosis.

Here's my nifty drawing showing injector current. On almost all vehicles they are supplied with 12 volts on one terminal, and it shows up on the other "control" terminal by reading through the injector. On all Chrysler products, that 12 volts comes from the ASD relay. The red graph shows that 12 volts, then, when the computer turns that driver circuit on, which is a transistorized switch, it draws that second terminal down to close to 0 volts. That puts 12 volts across the injector's electromagnetic coil.

The resulting current flow in the blue graph causes an electromagnetic field to build up inside the injector, but since it takes energy to do that, the buildup fights, or opposes that current flow. As a result, while voltage switched instantly, current builds up relatively slowly. Some of that energy goes into making the valve move. Once it reaches the full-open position, it can't move any further, it can't use up any more energy, so the current has to work harder to increase. That transition point is shown where the valve opens, and the computer sees that change. Failure to see that transition is what sets code 203, which is different from an electrical-related code.
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Wednesday, February 20th, 2019 AT 5:56 PM
Tiny
ROBERTD123
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No, there is no issue with it recharging on it's own. However, with me cranking it over and over and over with it only turning on for a couple of seconds that's not long enough to recharge the battery. Hence needing to recharge it. And for the fuel injectors as I mentioned before I already had a full set (which was bought as a matched set) and since I had already checked the wires prior to that code popping, I figured that it was the injectors. Also after pulling the injector for cylinder three I noticed that the bottom was discolored and there was grit around the o-rings on both sides of the injector. So I replaced them all so that they matched (again bought in a matched set) and now that that's been done the truck starts without having to have my foot on the gas. That being said, it only runs for about two to three seconds before turning off. That plus the grit on the injectors is causing me to believe that the fuel filter is "clogged up." So that's where I will be looking next. It will be a bit before I'm able to work on it again though due to work schedule.
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Wednesday, February 20th, 2019 AT 6:23 PM
Tiny
ROBERTD123
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Another reason as to why I believe the fuel filter is also clogged up is back when it was running if I had cruise control on and happened to be going up hill at anywhere from 50-60 mph it would randomly rev from 1.7k rpm up to 3k rpm in order to maintain speed. At the time I figured it was just a quirk of the vehicle given that it's over 15 years old. However now that these other things have happened it makes me believe that that was the start of the fuel filter/fuel pump starting to go as in my vehicle specifically they are the same part as the fuel filter is attached to the fuel pump.
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Wednesday, February 20th, 2019 AT 6:58 PM
Tiny
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Normally I tell people why to not bother looking at certain parts because they would be wasting their money, but I forgot to add, "unless you already have them on hand". That being the case, there's little harm in trying them.

Some engines introduce fuel priming pulses when you turn the ignition switch on, and some still try to develop the "idle flare-up" even though minimum throttle hasn't been relearned yet. Either of those can cause the engine to run for a couple of seconds, then stall. The clue is if the engine will remain running when you hold the accelerator pedal down 1/4", there is no other problem other than doing the test-drive to relearn minimum throttle.

If you are filling the gas tank regularly, the additives in it will dissolve the mold and keep the injector screens clear. It's when vehicle sit for long periods of time, as many of mine do, that the mold becomes a problem.

Chrysler gas filters rarely cause a problem. The stuff you saw in the injector screens is likely mold from the ethanol in the gas. That will plug the pick-up sock in the gas tank long before it will plug the fuel filter. The clinker though is the symptom is totally different than you would expect.

When the engine is under load or heavy acceleration, that is when the lowest volume of fuel is being pumped, and it is when the engine will run the best if that sock is plugged or collapsing. You'll have stalling, if that sock is collapsing, during coasting down from highway speed. That is when the highest volume of gas is being pumped.

The fuel pump moves about a couple of gallons of gas per minute. 99 percent of that gas goes through the pressure regulator, then right back into the gas tank by way of the return hose. Only a very tiny percentage is tapped off to go through the injectors and into the engine.

If you look at a molecule of gas just waiting to jump from the tip of the injector, there's two forces acting on it. You have fuel pressure pushing on one side and intake manifold vacuum pulling on the other side. The Engine Computer knows what fuel pressure is supposed to be, (but it isn't actually monitored or measured), and it knows by the readings from the MAP sensor what intake manifold vacuum is. Based on those two values, it calculates how many milliseconds to pulse the injectors open.

During periods of coasting, manifold vacuum goes up real high. That would tug on the fuel molecules real hard, creating a very rich mixture, and excessive pollution. You'll notice the fuel pressure regulator on the engine's fuel rail has a vacuum hose connected to it. When manifold vacuum goes up, it is applied to the spring-loaded pressure relief valve in the regulator, to make that valve open easier. That drops the fuel pressure. With higher manifold vacuum and lower fuel pressure, the net difference in forces remains the same, and that prevents the rich coast-down condition.

Since the pressure regulator opens easier to send the extra fuel back to the tank, the pump doesn't have to work so hard, so the volume of fuel being pumped goes way up. For this sad story, lets say it goes up to three gallons per minute. Now maybe only one tenth of one percent of that fuel gets tapped off to keep the engine running, so gas used up goes way down during coasting, but gas being moved by the pump goes way up. It's that higher volume that will suck a weak pick-up screen closed, causing it to block fuel flow, then the engine stalls.

This was also very common on older carbureted cars in the 1970's and 1980's. Those do not use a fuel return system, so the fuel volume only goes up during acceleration or high load. The stalling occurred just opposite of how it affects fuel-injected engines.

This happened to me on a 1978 LeBaron wagon and on an 1980 Volare. With both of those, I could drive normally for around fifteen miles, then it became more and more difficult to maintain highway speed. After sitting on the side of the road for about ten minutes, the sock would stretch out, then I could drive another few miles.

When this happened the first time to my 1988 Grand Voyager with fuel injection, it took me four hours to nurse it through Minneapolis with all three interstate bypasses down to one lane for road construction. After that, once on the highway, the engine ran fine for the three-hour drive home, then it stalled again when slowing down for my exit ramp. To add to the confusion, it only acted up that day and the next day, the two hottest days of summer, then not again for another year. A new $9.00 pick-up screen solved the stalling. The same thing happened many years later on the same van, but this time I had a fuel pressure gauge tied to the radio antenna. The problem only occurred when dragging a huge tandem-axle enclosed trailer that is bigger and heavier than the van. Fuel pressure would slowly drop from 50 psi to 20 psi, with the engine still seeming to run okay. It started to sputter at 15 psi. Most other engines won't even run when it's as low as 35 psi. I found that if I lifted the accelerator pedal for just a fraction of a second, that was enough to cause fuel pressure to pop back up to 50 psi, then I could get another half mile or so. I nursed it home 55 miles that way from an old car show swap meet.

That great and wondrous story might shed some light on what is happening with your truck, or at least give you some things to consider. I agree you don't need to look at the charging system. We'll save that discussion for if and when a problem develops with that.
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Thursday, February 21st, 2019 AT 5:28 PM
Tiny
ROBERTD123
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To the best of my understanding what is happening now is if I don't touch the pedal it will start up and kick over, but it shuts off almost immediately. If I touch the gas pedal at all it shuts off immediately. If it does manage to kick over even if it stalls out it will take five to ten minutes of just sitting there before it will kick over again otherwise it just cranks and cranks but won't kick over.
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Thursday, February 21st, 2019 AT 5:53 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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Go back to the basics and check for spark, then fuel pressure with a pressure gauge, and verify the ASD relay is turning on. At least one of those has to be missing.

If all of those things appear to be okay, see if it will run for a few seconds when you spray in a little gas. If it does, the MAP sensor may be failing. It has the biggest say of all the sensors for fuel metering calculations.
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Thursday, February 21st, 2019 AT 6:23 PM
Tiny
ROBERTD123
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Well, the ignition coil, plugs, wires and distributor are all brand new within the last month (since truck went down no real run time on any of them) and from the light testing you mentioned before the ASD was working fine before the injector swap. So I'll start with the MAP sensor and if that works then I will back track and check the others. Given that they are brand new they should be fine. Unless they were faulty when I got them. Wouldn't be the first time with my luck, lol.
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Thursday, February 21st, 2019 AT 6:32 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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If I can jump in here. can you disconnect tall injectors to see if the engine will run on starting fluid? This guide can help as well:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

Please run down this guide and report back.

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Monday, February 25th, 2019 AT 11:59 AM
Tiny
ROBERTD123
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Had boss's boyfriend come out with his scanner and it didn't pull anything, then noticed that a fuel injector wasn't seated right and then he pulled the oil dip stick out and wouldn't you know? Oil is the color of clay. Either blown head gasket or cracked head.
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Monday, February 25th, 2019 AT 1:31 PM
Tiny
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Before you get all wrapped around the axle, could you be seeing moisture from excessive short-trip driving? That will cause a white milky substance to appear under the "oil" cap, often accompanied by clear water droplets. The clue is the coolant level will still be okay.
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Monday, February 25th, 2019 AT 2:00 PM
Tiny
ROBERTD123
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We got it running and as it was running the coolant reservoir was draining.
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Monday, February 25th, 2019 AT 2:01 PM
Tiny
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Rats.
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Monday, February 25th, 2019 AT 2:30 PM

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