1999 Plymouth Breeze My 99 Plymouth wont start?

Tiny
LACHYTOON
  • MEMBER
  • 1999 PLYMOUTH BREEZE
  • 2.0L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 180,000 MILES
This morning my car was starting just fine then I drive to autozone to scan my car, after the scan my car wont start codes P0352 and P0351, relays are ok, coil, wires, spark plugs, starter, fuses also ok. But I dont get negative signal to the coil conector. I dont know,
Do I have to replace my pcm or the ecm or is there another reason why my car cannot start maybe ASD?
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Thursday, June 19th, 2014 AT 7:55 PM

9 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Why did you need to have the codes read? The parts you listed will cause different symptoms and are in different systems, so I can't determine what the symptom is. "Won't start" covers a number of different symptoms. Is the starter cranking the engine? If it is, have you checked for spark? If you have spark, have you checked for fuel pressure?
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Thursday, June 19th, 2014 AT 8:39 PM
Tiny
LACHYTOON
  • MEMBER
The starter is cranking the engine but no spark at all, the coil is not getting current and every time I try to start the 20 amp fuse for the pcm/asd dies.
What could be the cause?
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Friday, June 20th, 2014 AT 1:40 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
That sheds a new light on the story. A simple trick to finding a short is to replace the blown fuse with a pair of spade terminals, then use small jumper wires to connect them to a 12 volt light bulb. A brake light bulb works well. When the circuit is live and the short is present, the bulb will be full brightness and hot so be sure it's not laying on the carpet or against a plastic door panel. Now you can unplug electrical connectors and move things around to see what makes the short go away. When it does, the bulb will get dim or go out.

There's an additional clinker in this circuit. The automatic shutdown relay turns on for one second after turning on the ignition switch, which obviously isn't enough time to troubleshoot anything. It turns on again whenever there's engine rotation, meaning cranking or running, and again, it's not practical to run the starter as long as it takes to diagnose the problem. The light bulb will still limit current to a safe level, but to energize the circuit for testing, the easiest is to remove the ASD relay and install a jumper wire, then you can troubleshoot the circuit without even turning on the ignition switch. Depending on which style of relay you have, jump terminals 30 and 87 together or the two with arrows in my sad drawing below.

The ASD relay feeds the ignition coil, injectors, alternator field, fuel pump or pump relay, and the oxygen sensor heaters. The most common cause of blown fuses is a wiring harness to the oxygen sensors fell down onto hot exhaust parts, melted, and the heater wire is grounded.
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Saturday, June 21st, 2014 AT 12:12 AM
Tiny
LACHYTOON
  • MEMBER
Thank you, that helped me a lot I found the short it was the o2 sensor but I replaced the whole wiring hairiness including the PD box, PCM, TCM and the ignition coil but I still not getting the negative signal from the pcm to the coil. Do you think is there any other sensor damaged.
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Sunday, June 22nd, 2014 AT 10:19 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
That's a lot of stuff to replace for no reason, and it will have introduced a bunch of new variables, but we'll worry about those later. The next thing I need to know is if there's 12 volts going to the coil pack and injectors. You can back-probe the connector of any injector, the coil pack, or either smaller terminal on the back of the alternator. The 12 volt feed wire is dark green / orange. A test light works best for this test but you can use a digital voltmeter too. Some of them take a while to respond and you can miss the initial voltage pulse.

You should see 12 volts for just one second after turning on the ignition switch. That tells you the ASD relay and circuit are okay and the Engine Computer has control of it. That voltage must come back during engine rotation, (cranking or running). The computer turns the ASD relay back on when it sees the pulses from the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor. If that doesn't happen, the first suspect is the cam sensor. There likely was a diagnostic fault code stored in the old Engine Computer but that valuable information is lost now. You can check those codes but very often codes for those sensors won't set from simply cranking the engine. Typically the computer needs to see the loss of signal for a couple of seconds while the engine is coasting to a stall. If there are no fault codes, you'll need a scanner to view live data. It will list the two sensors with a "present" or "no" during cranking.
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Sunday, June 22nd, 2014 AT 10:42 PM
Tiny
LACHYTOON
  • MEMBER
Thanks the asd relay is sending the 12v to the coil, but I think my CKP sensor is bad I will test it tomorrow and i'll let you know how it goes.
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Sunday, June 22nd, 2014 AT 10:54 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
The relay is turning on when? Just for that first one second or during cranking? If it's turning on during cranking, the crank sensor is working and there's no need to test anything.
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Monday, June 23rd, 2014 AT 10:47 PM
Tiny
LACHYTOON
  • MEMBER
Problem solved CKP sensor was bad but the weird thing is that the scanner never showed a code saying that the crank sensor was bad. Now the only problem is the check engine light, the scanner says that my battery temp sensor is bad and there is not such a thing like battery temp sensor. So I don't know if just should erase the code or there is something else I should do.
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Tuesday, June 24th, 2014 AT 4:41 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
The battery temperature sensor is actually the intake air temperature sensor. That goes back to the older cars. The air temperature sensor was inside the Engine Computer which sat right next to the battery. Intake air went through the computer, so they put the sensor there. Failure is extremely rare because there's just one component in it. Most codes are set due to bad electrical connections or when a sensor is used in the fresh air tube, it is unplugged while the ignition switch is on.

Erase that code, then see if it sets again.
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Tuesday, June 24th, 2014 AT 9:30 PM

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