Engine not starting

Tiny
CHRISSY9728
  • 1996 SUBARU LEGACY
  • 200,000 MILES

96 subaru legacy outback turns over but wont start. New coil, cam & crank sensors, ignitor and ecm(?)

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Thursday, December 9th, 2010 AT 4:56 AM

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Tiny
KHLOW2008
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  • 41,959 POSTS

Have you checked the timing belt?

IGNITION CONTROL SYSTEM TESTS
1. Check Ignition System For Proper Spark - Remove injector sub-harness and spark plug wire cap from each spark plug. Install a known-good spark plug to spark plug wire and position spark plug so it is grounded to engine. Crank engine. If a spark does not occur at each spark plug, reconnect injector sub-harness and spark plug wires and go to next step. If a spark does occur at each spark plug, see FUEL PUMP CIRCUIT TESTS.

2. Check Voltage At Ignition Coil Positive Terminal - Turn ignition on. Ensure there is at least 10 volts between ignition coil 3-pin harness connector terminal No. 2 and ground. If voltage is as specified, go to next step. If voltage is not as specified, repair harness or connectors as necessary.

3. Check Ignition Coil - Remove ignition coil connector and remove ignition coil. Check resistance of ignition coil primary and secondary windings. If resistance is as specified, go to next step. If resistance is not as specified, replace ignition coil.

4. Check Ignitor Output Signal - Connect all connectors. Check voltage between ignitor output harness connector terminal No. 1 and ground, and terminal No. 2 and ground, while cranking engine. Voltage reading should be at least.1 volt. If voltage reading is as specified, go to next step. If voltage reading is not as specified, replace ignitor.

5. Check Harness Between ECM & Ignitor - Turn ignition off. Disconnect ECM and ignitor harness connectors. Ensure there is zero ohms between ECM harness connector terminal No. 9 and ignitor terminal No. 2, ECM harness connector terminal No. 10 and ignitor terminal No. 1, ECM harness connector terminal No. 15 and ignitor terminal No. 3 and ground. Ensure there is no continuity between ignitor terminal No. 1 and ground, and between ignitor terminal No. 2 and ground. If resistance is as specified, inspect ECM connector and repair as necessary. If ECM connector is okay, replace ECM. If resistance is
not as specified, repair harness or connectors as necessary.

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Thursday, December 9th, 2010 AT 2:42 PM
Tiny
SUBARUDOC
  • MEMBER

Did you do a compression test, does it have spark, does it start on starting fluid

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Wednesday, December 15th, 2010 AT 3:49 AM
Tiny
CHRISSY9728
  • MEMBER

My uncle's mechanic is a professional but not with foreign cars. He has been kind enough to look at mine but rarely has more than an hour of time at a time. I pray youre still feeling as kind and are willing to share any other brilliant advice. He followed your aforementioned directions to a tee, still nothing. The dash is off and they are about to give up on it/me. If you can think of anything else we can do, any other suggestions at all, I beg you please please share. Yes compression test, I dont know the results but suspect it was correct. No spark. No start on starting fluid. I am told someone checked it with a special device ? That says the problem lies within the keyless entry/security system. I think it has been disconnected. Please keep in mind all this info im sharing with you is third hand and I am not at all familiar with mechanic lingo. His next move is a new ignition.I see there is info about donating on this site, I will educate myself further and plan to give accordingly plus some as soon as I can. Hope your holiday was bright. Have a blessed day kind sir, youve helped immensely. Xo
chrissy

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Wednesday, December 29th, 2010 AT 6:51 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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I am not sure about the present situation so you wuld have to get the following answer for me.

1. Are the dash indicator lights showing when igntiion is turned on?
2. Do they stay on (except for oil pressure, it might turn off if you crank for extended periods) when the strater is being cranked?
3. Have you confirmed that ignition sparks are missing?
4. Is there battery voltage at ignition coil when ignition is turned on?
5. Is there battery voltage at ignition coil when cranking engine?
6. Is keyless entry system factory or after market?
7. Is the fuel pump working? Have you checked the fuel pressure?

Happy New Year.

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Thursday, December 30th, 2010 AT 1:23 PM
Tiny
CHRISSY9728
  • MEMBER

If I didnt mention before, you're an angel.
1. No "check engine" light when ignition is on. Im pretty sure the dash doesnt show any indicator lights whatsoever.
3. Yes sparks ARE missing.
5. Yes there is voltage at the coil when cranking. There is voltage on all 3 wires. Even on the ground.
6. He thinks the keyless entry is after market. The keyless entry has been totally removed.
**I fear I may have confused his answers to #'s 4 5 & 7. But if I recall correctly. Yes 12 volts at ignition coil when ignition is on.
And yes the fuel pump is working. Im certain he said that checking 1 or the other of these requires hotwiring.
7. He feels strongly that the fuel pump will work properly when the unknown problem is addressed. I cant remember what he said about the pressue.
Thank you again and again for your help sir. You are a ray of sunshine after weeks of gloomy gray skies. I look forward to a reply and appreciate any info you care to share. Pardon my late nights rants as I keep odd hours with my work.
Happy New Year. God Bless
Chrissy

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Friday, December 31st, 2010 AT 8:38 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Thank you for the compliments. We are here to help and would give it our best shot. Please remember that we are not with the vehicle and depend on you to provide as much information as possible and if any of the information is not accurate, we cn be missing out important factors which might lead us nowhere.

After market keyless system should have nothing to do with the non starting.

If the dash is not showing any indicator lights when ignition switch is turned on, it could mean a power supply disruption and could also be due to a faultry ignition switch.

If the CEL is not showing at initial ignition ON, it could mean a faulty with the ECM or its wiring.

Did you try to retrieve for trouble codes with scan tools?

For no spark conditions, the crankshaft position sensor could be the cause. Here are diagnostics for the CKP.

DTC P0335 (CRANK) - CRANKSHAFT POSITION (CKP) SENSOR CIRCUIT
MALFUNCTION

1. Turn ignition off. Disconnect CKP sensor harness connector. Check resistance between CKP sensor harness connector terminal No. 1 and chassis ground. If resistance is 100 k/ohms or greater, check and repair open in harness between ECM and CKP sensor harness connector. Check for poor contact in ECM connector, coupling connector in harness between CKP and ECM. If resistance is less than 100 k/ohms, go to next step.

NOTE:
Harness between both connectors is shielded. Repair short circuit in harness together with shield.

2. If resistance is 10 ohms or less, check for short in harness between CKP sensor and ECM harness connector. If resistance is greater than 10 ohms, but less than 100 k/ohms, go to next step.

3. Check resistance between CKP sensor harness connector terminal No. 2 and chassis ground. If resistance is 5 ohms or less, go to next step. If resistance is greater than 5 ohms, check for open in harness between CKP sensor and ECM connector. Check for poor terminal connection in coupling.

4. Check if installation bolts of CKP sensor are loose, tighten securely. If bolts were not loose, remove CKP sensor and check resistance between CKP sensor terminals. If resistance is 1-4 k/ohms, repair poor contact in CKP sensor harness connector. If resistance is less than 1 k/ohm or greater than 4 k/ohm, replace CKP sensor.

You are not the only person with odd woking hours, lol.

Happy New Year.

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Friday, December 31st, 2010 AT 11:38 AM
Tiny
CHRISSY9728
  • MEMBER

Hello kind Sir,

I have some more information to share. Seems dash indicator lights are showing when ignition is on. All except the "check engine" one. He tried 2 different scans tools (cheap & then fancy) but neither pick up, read or even come on. Nada nothing. Also, there is no "flicker" when he tests the connector harness while its unplugged. All 3 have voltage when its plugged in.
As im learning from you and recalling the extreme caution the manual warned about while working on the computer of the car, im flipping out a lil bit because I cant swear wether or not the ignition was turned to the on or off postion when the ECM was being changed. Both it and the ignition module were being changed at the same time by two people, it was 8 degrees cold and I was jumping in and out of my car turning it over, looking for lights, relaying info etc. Good grief. 5 weeks and several hundred $$'s later. Do you think the aforementioned points directly to the $220 ECM? If so is there an alternate way to double check it? And if not, have you anymore advice? A million thanks Sir. Waiting nervously for your generous reply.
Chrissy

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Sunday, January 2nd, 2011 AT 10:13 PM
Tiny
SUBARUDOC
  • MEMBER

Did you check the ignitor it is located right behind the intake on the firewall, its what controls the firing for the coil. I ran into a couple of these in the past.

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Sunday, January 2nd, 2011 AT 11:55 PM
Tiny
CHRISSY9728
  • MEMBER

If the ignitor is directly in the middle straight ahead on the frame of the car, thats what I meant when I said ignition module. Thank you for your interest & help.

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Monday, January 3rd, 2011 AT 2:36 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Have the MIL ( Check engine lamp) circuit checked and ensure it is not due to a bad bulb in dash.

If the scan tool is not communicating with the ECM and the MIL is not indicating at initial ignition on, it could be due to the ECM or its wiring, especially ground circuits.

It is always recommended to disconnect battery when removing/installing electrical components to prevent damge due to current surge.

If the ECM is a reman unit, I would not rule out the posibility of it being faulty as well.

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Monday, January 3rd, 2011 AT 2:45 PM
Tiny
CHRISSY9728
  • MEMBER

The dash bulbs havent been checked still my friend seems to think the problem is with the coil pack and or its wiring. When u plug in the coil harness all 3 wires turn 12volt power. With it unplugged only 1 wire, the middle 1, is showing 12v power. No pulse test can be ran/detected because they all show 12volts. Im told that all grounds are good. A different ecm was purchased and plugged in today as well (that makes 3 ecms)but to no avail. Im thankful for your continued interest and kind help. Friday is payday and a donation will be made to show my thanks. Xo

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Monday, January 10th, 2011 AT 11:35 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Thank you for the offer of a donation.

Subarudoc should be well versed with this vehicle and it is great that he is helping with the diagnostics.

Were the procedures I posted on Dec 09 carried out and what were the results? Those would help to identify no spark conditions.

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Tuesday, January 11th, 2011 AT 2:46 PM
Tiny
CHRISSY9728
  • MEMBER

Im hoping to have my uncle reply to your last query. Thank you again and again.

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Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 AT 5:40 PM
Tiny
CHRISSY9728
  • MEMBER

Im still carless and the fellow helping me is busy so I havent any pertinent info to share. I pray i'll get some updated proper answers tomorrow so I may send them to you. Im making a donation, finally. Although im not sure how appropriate is in regard to all your help, its the best I can do at present. The Lord keeps a special eye on me so I doubt it will be my only donation. Looking forward to more brilliant help soon. Thanks again.
Chrissy

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Tuesday, January 18th, 2011 AT 3:28 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Thank you for the donation.

Any reply to this post would be notified via emails so I would be keeping an eye on it.

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Tuesday, January 18th, 2011 AT 1:08 PM
Tiny
MM1964
  • 1996 SUBARU LEGACY
  • 2.5L
  • 4 CYL
  • AWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 140,000 MILES

No fire, all components are new.

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Thursday, March 16th, 2017 AT 12:55 PM (Merged)
Tiny
EXILED4NOW
  • 1996 SUBARU LEGACY
  • 2.2L
  • 4 CYL
  • AWD
  • AUTOMATIC

Hello, and thank you all in advance. To start let me say I'm not a newbie to cars, been working on them for sometime now but I can't seem to get my 96 Subaru Legacy 2.2 station wagon started. For starters I replaced the serpentine belt because it was worn and was making a high pitch noise. Then I brought it to the shop to replace my Catalytic converters replaced (would of done it myself but bolts were stuck on there good). When I received my scooby back I noticed it was bogging pretty bad. Almost got hit pulling out of the parking lot because she wouldn't go. Kept driving home and it seemed to slowly work itself out to the point I was almost thinking that I was delusional about the power loss. So anyways skip about a week, and my fiancee takes the scooby to work which is about an hour away (she had been doing it the whole week as well). When she got off work and went to go start the car it made a really bad noise (I've no clue what the noise sounded like because I wasn't there) and the car started to vibrate. Putting the car into reverse my fiancee was hoping it would work out until she got home. Well as soon as she put it in reverse the whole car shuddered bad and almost died. So she put it back into park and turned the car off. I show up about an hour later and started tinkering with the serpentine belt thinking maybe I tighten it to much. After about 5 trial and errors of it making weird noises each time different then the last one. I'm guessing it had to do with the belt but after the 5th try the car wouldn't start anymore. So I figured we flooded it and that it should be fine in the morning. So we leave and return the next day to find that it still wouldn't start. So I did some more trouble shooting, started with the fuel, had my fiancee try and start the car, while I listened for the fuel pump to engage, it did. I then had her try again while I smelled the scoobies tail pipe. (I know weird saying that I smelled the scoobies tail pipe haha) anyways I noticed an unburnt fuel smell. So thinking it wasn't sparking I went to the front and checked the battery. It's fully charged, cleaned the terminal anyways with no change. So I decided to check to see if it was even sparking, stuck a screw driver into an unplugged spark plug wire and had it sit next to the engine block. No spark, so I thought I had found my culprit. Changed the coil pack thinking that was it (even though we had just changed it less then 6 months ago thought maybe it was defective) but the only change it made was the type of noise it was making when we turned it over. It was first making it's normal noise when you try and start a scooby, but after the coil pack was changed it started making a different sound that I couldn't describe. Did the spark test again with still no spark. So now I'm totally lost, tried looking online to see if anyone else had similar problems. To no avail, found something about the crank shaft and cam shaft position sensors going bad could affect the ability to start the car. So I've changed the crank shaft position sensor and will be putting the cam shaft position sensor later when I go pick up my Fiancee. So to wrap this up, I need someone who might have a clue as to what I'm dealing with. Because I can't afford to keep buying parts and hoping it will work. Nor can I get it towed because it's out in the middle of this bad mountain I doubt a tow truck could even make it. Any and all help would be appreciated greatly. Thanks again!

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Thursday, March 16th, 2017 AT 12:55 PM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
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Youi have to scan for codes and check fuel pressure first autoparts rent it. Then because of the noise you or whoever heard it check the compression. I don't see any miles written on this so it may have been on it's last leg anyhow so do the basics first prior to changing parts and just costing you money an dnot starting still.

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Thursday, March 16th, 2017 AT 12:55 PM (Merged)
Tiny
EXILED4NOW
  • MEMBER

How do you check the fuel pressure in a 96 subaru legacy? I don't know the mileage, it stop working at 168k but it was a rental car so god knows how many miles is on it. Haha, but it's been a great car for over 2 years without any real problems, routine stuff nothing serious so I'd imagine we would have gotten some sort of warning before it would just crap out. But I bought a compression tester, spark tester, and a multimeter. Should I get any other thing to test my car with? It's an hour up the road and an hour and a half from the nearest auto part store so I'd like to know before I go venturing out again. Thanks for the quick reply!

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Thursday, March 16th, 2017 AT 12:55 PM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
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A lot of auto parts stores rent the gauge fp should be 36 psi if lower it will probably need apump it should hold that pressure for a few minutes as well after keycar off

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Thursday, March 16th, 2017 AT 12:55 PM (Merged)

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