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Ignition issue

Tiny
RICKB8479
  • MEMBER
  • 1984 JEEP CJ7
  • 5.0L
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 1,000,000 MILES
Been reading a post between the medic and cfengineer. I have the same issue.

What I know so far:

Was running fine and just died

84 cj7

79 304 (I think)

Ford ignition not prestolite

New coil (external resistor)

New ignition module

New distributor

5v at coil with ignition on

11v at coil while cranking

Pulsing spark to ground from coil while cranking

Spark at number one plug only at first crank and when released

No spark during extended cranking

Fuel present

Timing close to correct

Ignition switch has been abandoned

In its place a switch for ignition and a momentary switch for start. Been working this way for years.

HELP
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Sunday, March 26th, 2017 AT 1:54 PM

36 Replies

Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Thank Gosh!

Haven't seen a CJ on here in forever!

Let me digest this a little.

Have you had that ignition module tested at the parts store?

I learned long ago, new ones can be bad too!

If you get a new one, test it before you leave, do the test 5-8 times in a row!

Have you had the distributor out?

The Medic
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Sunday, March 26th, 2017 AT 4:31 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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Is this a new buddy for you?

Has it ran for you?

The Medic
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Sunday, March 26th, 2017 AT 4:33 PM
Tiny
RICKB8479
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  • 21 POSTS
Yes had it tested. Yes distributor is new. Removed old one after marking orientation of advance pot and rotor. Yes its new to me been running for me for 6 mos. Ran for previous owner 4 years. I read one of your previous posts and did what you said there are several of your questions answered in my first post. I am glad it was you that found it.
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Sunday, March 26th, 2017 AT 4:42 PM
Tiny
RICKB8479
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  • 21 POSTS
Btw the "I think" refers to the year model of the engine. I know its a 304
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Sunday, March 26th, 2017 AT 4:44 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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Just as a test,

Try this

Positive Battery to Positive Coil

Then attempt a start.

If it coughs into action, removing the wire should kill it.

WATCH OUT FOR THEM PESKY MOVING PARTS!

If things are scarce, you can chop up a cheap 6 foot household extension cord to do it.

Lemme know what happens!

Been working on "Willys" steering gear all night, getting the slop out, midnight-thirty here, must work tomorrow!

See pics below

The Medic
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Sunday, March 26th, 2017 AT 9:32 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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While it is cranking, does it spit and sputter and sorta 'wants to' bust off and run or it does it just give you dry over and overs? (Then nothingness when you let go of the button)

The Medic
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Sunday, March 26th, 2017 AT 9:39 PM
Tiny
RICKB8479
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Nothing with wire between battery positive and coil positive.

The onlt time it acts like it wants to start is some times when you let off the button. (One cough)
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Monday, March 27th, 2017 AT 7:59 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
OK!

Sounds like "I" Terminal is not working right. (May or may not have a bearing on the situation at hand)

If "I" was working 'right', it would run while cranking, die when released (if Ignition were not supplied from the key 'ON' position)

My hypothesis at this point is Something is not hooked right or is grounding out when you turn it 'ON' ('I' might be fine, but the other end is cancelling it out.

I'll sling this out - You have the Ignition Module is grounded well?

If you disconnect the Ignition Switch

Hook the Pos battery back to Pos Coil

Give it a try

Better results?

This is not the original engine is it?

I'm sending you some partial diagram that may help you look at the wiring

Yeah, it's from the 258, I want you to see if all of the wires (not the firewall) go where they should, are any missing? Do any hook to something not shown in the diagram?

Can you send pics of tour engine, top, sides?

I'm here for the long haul, try to bear with me! I'll keep going as long as you will!

The Medic
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Wednesday, March 29th, 2017 AT 5:17 PM
Tiny
RICKB8479
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Ok. Lets go through this again.

Facts:

1984 cj7

1979 304v8

Ran for 4.5 years and just died

Replaced coil (external resistor required)

Replaced ignition module (tested good two different places)

Replaced distributor ( in time more or less)

5.6 volts at coil in on position

11v at coil while cranking

Wont run in either position

One Spark from coil to ground when start button depressed

One spark from coil to ground when released.

Resistor wire in place

One wire from splice at fire wall to exciter field of alternator not shown in diagram you sent me

Removed that wire temporarily and nothing changed

Ran wire temporarily fron batt+ to coil+ no change

Checked ground at module. Ok

What am I missing?

Can I get you on the phone while I test?
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 1:30 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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I'll PM you after another check or two.

"Replaced distributor ( in time more or less)" (Means what?)

Mr. Distributor has been out/ partially out of his hole during this sickness?

This may be a review, dumb stuff does happen!

At the bottom of each of our responses is a Date/ Time

In the link I'm sending, look for "MY ANSWER" on MONDAY, NOVEMBER 23RD, 2015 AT 6:43 PM

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/no-spark-from-coil-to-distributor

(This written when I just used all CAPs, 'cause it was EZer, got peoples attention! They tend to frown on doing that now, otherwise I woulda just copy and pasted to you, I really don't wanna rewrite the whole deal!)

Lemme know how this goes!

Some good pics of/ around the engine might help.

We will get you going!

The Medic
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 2:34 PM
Tiny
RICKB8479
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Yes as I said I replaced the distributor. I clocked the rotor and the advance pot before removal and reinstalled in the ecact same positions so the timing is close to correct. I listed everything I have done or confirmed in the previous post. I have traved all the wires now and drawn you a diagram. There are other pics too.

1. Diagram
2. Splice at fire wall
3. Module
4. Module connector
5. Wires out of loom
6. Duplicate
7. Distributor connector
8.? Something inline to coil-
9. 2 oranges and a purple through passenger side firewall.

Any of this helpful?
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 3:20 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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Good pics!

How 'bout some of the distributor and the ignition module. But most of all, their connectors/ connections. Definitely has some add on wiring (that may have worked in the past- maybe could be improved)

I know you think I'm not hearin' what you have done!

Doing this online is more of a challenge, even in person sometimes this'll blow one's mind. The modifications to one throws a twist in the whole deal.

How about doing the TDC thing (# 1 plug screwed in a turn or so) listen for hiss while turning with a ratchet. Continue around till the timing marks are on "0".

AS said better in the LINK I SENT!

Then snatch the distributor cap off

Verify that the rotor button is pointing at #1 spark plug wire.

IF this ain't right, you will still get spark, just at the wrong time!

10 minutes now may save you a lot more time later!

We have to methodically eliminate factors.

The Medic
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 4:36 PM
Tiny
RICKB8479
  • MEMBER
  • 21 POSTS
Any clue whats under the dash on the passenger side.? Too dark for pics now. Stand by. Agter resding many of your posts I cant figure why I have no spark while cranking.? I have 11v at the coil. I understand that if the timings out it won't run but it would backfire and carry on.? Its also odd that I get a spark when depressing the start button and when releasing it. What is that black thing in line on the green wire. I have been trying to do this systematically based on other if your posts. Do you have a procedure to follow step1 through step? I only get to work on it in spurts so it is difficult to do this one post at a time.
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 6:15 PM
Tiny
RICKB8479
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Btw I performed the test on the distributor pick up as you posteded. S goodsd
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 6:20 PM
Tiny
RICKB8479
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Wow. The pick up is good. Thanks.
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 6:21 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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I've spent a good while making this for you.

That's why I have not responded.

Lemme know if this helps, I found the basic diagram on the net, you'll see my erasing and adding of the wires and explanations. Post any un-sure-ities!

Alternator thing is new on me! Maybe a condenser for the radio? Fusible link? Does the juice flow thru it?

The Medic
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 7:13 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
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I reckon I cut the bottom off.

Info lost there

IGN MODULE "WHITE WIRE" came down, then over the module, then to the bottom, ran left, then up the left side and tied into the "S" wire (BLUE- you can see that end of the white wire) These two wires connected at the firewall (look at one of my 1st diagrams from way up above).

News on TDC and rotor position at distributor cap test?

The Medic
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 7:25 PM
Tiny
RICKB8479
  • MEMBER
  • 21 POSTS
No tdc till tomorrow. Ill look at the white wire them too.

Btw. Thats not my distributor. Cap is one piece on mine. If you look at the pic of my module connector youll see it had no purple but it does have purple on the module. The purple wire connected to the distributor is coming thru the firewall on the passenger side. Thats what makes me ask whats back there.

I think we are starting to get somewhere on the ignition at least it has become apparent that we are talking apples and oranges

Thanks for the help. More tomorrow.
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 8:19 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
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Pics of dist/ module connectors

Pic below is 1979 diagram from a manual

I scanned it, colored in Microsoft Paint

I colored the wires best I could (so I could understand the ones with color tracers, color of the tracers was not given)

The 258 and 304 share the same diagram. 304 being in the upper left corner and 258 is directly below it.

You will see the Battery for both. East and West and South of the 2nd battery is mostly the 258. Sorta disregard the stuff pertaining to the 258 (it is so close to the 304 wiring).

1st pic is both engines

I cropped 2nd pic to show more 304

I feel sure the 1984 Ghost wire goes into the firewall/ thru the computer/ back out.

Need to eliminate the ghost stuff and insure the wires go directly from one part to the other with no 'goodies' in-between.

Pic 3, I also had the 2 pieces of my home-colored diagram blown up at Office Max. I overlapped them correctly, taped them in place, then Office Max laminated it for me. It's darn big/ EZ to trace wires/ fast to find stuff.

The Medic
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 9:22 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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I have no idea why the 1st pic did not show above, it was loaded.

2nd pic is the main one anyway!

The Medic
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Saturday, April 22nd, 2017 AT 9:30 PM

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