Will not start

Tiny
QCMAN14@GMAIL.COM
  • MEMBER
  • 1994 PLYMOUTH VOYAGER
  • 68,742 MILES
Driving in a rain storm van just quit running. I replaced fuel pump and crank sensor still will not start. It has good spark, check all fueses and relays all good. Has twelve volts at the fuel pump, but pump still will not turn on. Tried starter fluid will run on it. I am stumped. Bill
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Wednesday, March 1st, 2017 AT 4:38 PM

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Tiny
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Hey; my daily driver is a 1994 Grand Voyager!

How and when are you finding twelve volts to the fuel pump? Chrysler fuel pumps almost always fail by failing to start up. It is extremely rare for one to stop running while you are driving.

You need to list which engine you have in case I need to refer to a wiring diagram.

Have you checked the actual fuel pressure with a gauge?
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Wednesday, March 1st, 2017 AT 4:57 PM
Tiny
QCMAN14@GMAIL.COM
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With the key on and use a volt meter I get twelve volts and the engine size is a 3.3.
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Wednesday, March 1st, 2017 AT 5:03 PM
Tiny
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There should only be twelve volts to the fuel pump for one second when the ignition switch is turned on. That twelve volts comes back during engine rotation, (cranking or running). If you are finding twelve volts with the engine not cranking, I suspect you are on the wire for the sending unit. Or, you have the voltmeter grounded to the battery's positive post. Or, you have an auto-ranging meter and you overlooked that it is reading millivolts. (I have over a dozen digital meters for TV repair and I never use auto-ranging meters for that reason. Get tricked too many times).
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Wednesday, March 1st, 2017 AT 5:57 PM
Tiny
QCMAN14@GMAIL.COM
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Do not ask me how I am getting twelve volts at the plug for the fuel pump it I am. Do you think it could be the engine control module?
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Wednesday, March 1st, 2017 AT 7:06 PM
Tiny
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Not the computer. It turns on the automatic shutdown, (ASD) relay during engine rotation. That relay sends twelve volts to the ignition coil pack, injectors, alternator field, oxygen sensor heaters, and the fuel pump or pump relay. You have spark, so the ASD relay is working.

Double-check the voltage to the fuel pump. A test light works best because most digital meters do not respond fast enough. The light should light up for one second when you turn the ignition switch on, then again during cranking.
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Wednesday, March 1st, 2017 AT 7:16 PM
Tiny
QCMAN14@GMAIL.COM
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Okay, I will check the voltage tomorrow it is dark outside. I will try a test light.
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Wednesday, March 1st, 2017 AT 7:39 PM
Tiny
QCMAN14@GMAIL.COM
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Okay, it is daylight out now and I check to see if there was power to the fuel pump and there is not any with the key just to run no and with the key to start no.
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 10:57 AM
Tiny
QCMAN14@GMAIL.COM
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P. S there is no fuel pressure at the rail that my problem no gas to run.
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 3:17 PM
Tiny
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That should be the dark green/black wire at the pump.

The circuit has changed a little from what I have memorized. There is a separate fuse and relay for the fuel pump, but the relay is in parallel with the ASD relay. That means they both turn on at the same time and by the same circuit. Check the "fuel pump" fuse in the under-hood fuse box. It is a blue fifteen amp.

If the fuse is good, swap the fuel pump relay with another one like it. The AC compressor relay is a good one to use. If the engine starts now, pop the cover off the relay, and I will bet you find the contacts are blocked with a gob of rust.

Feel if that relay clicks when a helper turns the ignition switch on. If it does, that half of the circuit is working. Remove the relay, then check for twelve volts in the socket. You should have twelve volts on two terminals.
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 5:10 PM
Tiny
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I want to thank you for all your help.I have found the problem it's the hot wire from the fuse block my van runs good so now I got to run a new wire to the fuel pump. One last question what wire do I look for on the fuse block
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 5:59 PM
Tiny
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So I can splice into and run the wire
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 6:01 PM
Tiny
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I don't approve of splicing a new wire to run parallel to the old one unless the old one is cut out on both ends. I taught my students to always find the break or short, and fix it, because you don't know what caused it otherwise. If it got cut laying across the sharp edge of a metal bracket, you want to correct that before the same thing happens to another wire in that harness.

Which wire color has the problem?
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 7:13 PM
Tiny
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Its the green with a black stripe
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 7:16 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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I got confused when you asked "which wire". What did you do to get the engine running?

The difference I was referring to is the oxygen sensor heater is also powered from this circuit. The diagram shows two individual wires leaving the fuel pump rely in the fuse box. If I had an original service manual, that would show all the connectors and splices in the circuit. It is possible there is only a single wire leaving the relay, and it goes to the O2 sensor at the rear, center of the engine compartment, then there's a splice there and the rest of the wire goes to the fuel pump. On some cars, the wiring harness can break off its plastic mounting clip and fall down onto hot exhaust parts and melt. If you have an intermittently-blowing fuel pump fuse, that would be a good place to look.

Splices are also good places to find a break due to corrosion. Those can cause part of the circuit to be totally dead, or, if it's a low-current circuit like for a light bulb, that bulb might just be dim.
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 7:57 PM
Tiny
QCMAN14@GMAIL.COM
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I ran a wire from the battery to the fuel pump
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 8:02 PM
Tiny
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If you can dig down to the O2 sensor, see if you get 12 volts there.
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 8:17 PM
Tiny
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Ok I will try the o2thing tomorrow its dark out there
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2017 AT 8:40 PM
Tiny
QCMAN14@GMAIL.COM
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Ok I done the O2 thing and there is 12volts there on three of the wires and a very dim light light on the forth wire using a test light
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Friday, March 3rd, 2017 AT 2:24 PM
Tiny
QCMAN14@GMAIL.COM
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P.S there are two wires in the fuse block that are the same green with aa Blake stripe and the third wire is is blue with yellow stripe it tear of to the A S D relay
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Friday, March 3rd, 2017 AT 2:30 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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There has to be a break in the wire going to the fuel pump. The only experience I've had with that on a friend's Caravan years ago was the terminal in the connector right at the pump was stretched after he struggled to reconnect it. It made a poor contact, so heat built up, and eventually the terminal overheated and burned the rubber cap. It took a couple of months to cause an intermittent stalling problem after the pump had been replaced.

There is no other common history of this circuit causing problems. When you check for 12 volts at the pump's connector, don't forget to check the ground circuit. The ground is okay if the fuel gauge is reading correctly. It shares the same ground wire.
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Friday, March 3rd, 2017 AT 6:48 PM

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