Wheel bearing or wheel bearing assembly

Tiny
TURKEYTOES
  • MEMBER
  • 2001 TOYOTA ECHO
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 230,000 MILES
Need to replace front wheel bearings. Bearings only is cheaper by far. Is replacing the full bearing with assembly better?

I want to know, regardless of cost or time to replace, which is the best to do?

Is there a potential for problems if only the bearing is replaced?

Over 200,000 on these bearings.

I greatly appreciate the time and trouble you guys/gals go through to help others. Any/all responses will be appreciated.

My regards
Tuesday, February 6th, 2018 AT 9:58 AM

6 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,837 POSTS
If you check the parts closer, I suspect you are looking at the complete assembly for a rear wheel. Toyota is one of the few manufacturers that are still using a pressed-in front wheel bearing. There is no one-piece bolt-on bearing for your application. That style, used on 1991 and newer Chrysler's, and on all GM products, cost more because you are getting more, but they are real easy to replace with just a few hand tools.

Your car uses a pressed-in bearing, and for your application, they are uncommonly inexpensive, but you will likely need a special tool. The hub has to be pressed out of the bearing, then there is a snap ring that must be removed from the spindle. That snap ring holds the bearing in. Once the ring is removed, you might be able to pound the bearing out, but most commonly you will need a tool to pull or press the bearing out of the spindle. Clean the spindle of all debris and scale, then press the new bearing in. Install the snap ring, then press the hub in. You cannot just pull against the spindle to force the hub in. That would pull the bearing apart and destroy it. The center of the bearing has to be supported, and you pull against it when pulling the hub in. The special tool has a large threaded shaft to pull the hub against the bearing's center race to pull them together.

There is a kit available that includes a new center hub, but the cost is real high for what you are getting. You can expect that once the old hub is removed, half of the bearing's inner race will be stuck to it. That can be really hard to remove. That is why they offer the kit with the new hub. Instead, to remove that old race, I cut about ninety percent of the way through it with an air cutoff tool, then it can be cracked with a hammer and flat chisel. Once cracked, it can be slid or tapped off. Do not panic if you cut a groove into the hub if you cut too far through the race. That will not have any effect on safety or reliability.

With either type of wheel bearing, it is held together with the outer CV joint and axle nut. It is critical that no vehicle weight ever be placed on the bearing when that nut is not tightened to specs. Doing so will instantly make it noisy. Some do-it-yourselfers will install the wheel/tire, and set it on the ground to hold the axle shaft from spinning so they can tighten the nut. By that time the damage has been done. Instead, just poke a punch or screwdriver into a cooling slot in the brake rotor to hold the shaft from spinning. The nut must be tightened with a click-type torque wrench to specs. The spec should be listed on the instruction sheet that comes with the bearing. A typical torque spec is 180 foot-pounds, but I have seen them as high as 240 foot-pounds.
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Tuesday, February 6th, 2018 AT 2:34 PM
Tiny
TURKEYTOES
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Thanks Caradiodoc, that was helpful.

But, your answer has raised another question.

Here is the situation, and why I originally posed the question.

This is my wife's car and she insists on taking care of all issues on her own. Does not want any help. I drive it a couple of times a week.

Was generating a noise that became progressively worse and worse. I diagnosed it as a wheel bearing issue, research, I am pretty much totally ignorant of care issues.

Called a reputable car repair shop and they quoted a price of $450.00 to replace the bearing about $170.00 for parts. They did not look at the car. Do not remember if they priced a front or rear bearing/hub assembly.

Had another reputable shop drive and inspect the car. They stated that both front wheel bearings needed to be replaced. Right front one was very bad and left front was bad, but not very. Cost to replace both of them was estimated to be about $1,000.00 as I remember.

Wife took the car to a mechanic and had the right front bearing - only - replaced.

Car is making about the same volume of sound as it was before the right front bearing was replaced. The noise is much stronger when making a left turn very noticeable quieter when making a right turn.

This would indicate an issue with the right front bearing - again? If so, can I assume that they torqued the nut with the car on the ground?

Or, is this a problem with the left front wheel bearing?

You gave a very detailed and obviously knowledgeable reply and I really appreciate your time and effort and knowledge.

Regards

Andy
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Wednesday, February 7th, 2018 AT 3:57 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,837 POSTS
You made a dandy observation of the noise changing when making slight steering changes, as in when changing lanes, and you are correct, the noise gets louder when steering away from the noisy bearing because more weight transfers onto it. There are two additional points of interest. The first is this applies to the pressed-in bearings like your car uses, and not as much for the bolt-on bearing assemblies. The second concern is this clue can be misleading. Due to how noise can transfer through the body, it is not uncommon for a noisy left bearing to sound like the noise is coming from the right side. This too applies more to the bolt-on bearings, but the good news there is the old bearing can be installed on the other side. I have had it happen to me with the pressed-in bearings, but those can only be removed by destroying them, so if the wrong one is replaced, you have to buy another one for the other side. They are very inexpensive, but it is the extra time needed to replace them that is costly.

It sounds possible the axle nut was torqued improperly, but the mechanic should have noticed the noise was still there on the test drive. Regardless, return to the same shop, explain the same noise is still there, and give them the opportunity to correct their mistakes. Ask to be allowed to talk with the mechanic when the car is on the hoist and is being inspected, then do the test I described where you spin the wheel and feel for the vibration in the coil spring.

If further inspection shows the left bearing is noisy, the issue then is who diagnosed the right one as being bad. Very often we read about a customer who diagnosed the cause of a problem by them self or with friends, then asked the mechanic to perform a specific repair. If the diagnosis turns out to be wrong, the customer got the service they requested, so they are obligated to pay for it. When the mechanic did the diagnosis and recommended a repair, there can be a gray area as to what to do if that diagnosis was wrong. Obviously when we see a sloppy ball joint or broken tire belt, it is easy to know those must be replaced, but with elusive noises, ambiguous diagnostic fault codes, and especially intermittent electrical problems, there can be no clear way to know what the cause is without time-consuming and expensive diagnosis, or heaven-forbid, the dreaded, ineffective, trial and error random parts replacement.

When the diagnosis is difficult or you are not getting the results you are paying for, the first step is to verify you are providing the most detailed clues as possible. This is where a good service writer at the larger shops is supposed to help the mechanic do his job as effectively as possible. It is not their job to start the diagnosis by entering such things on the repair order as, "check for broken tire belt", or "inspect ball joints". They can start the mechanic down the wrong road by listing those things they were told by the customer. Instead, "thumping and steering wheel shimmy", and "clunking in front end when driving over bumps" are the better symptoms to enter. That lets the mechanic head straight for the most likely suspects without getting sidetracked by what the service writer thinks might be wrong. We can also run into problems when we become fixated on what we found to be broken or worn out, but neglect to complete the inspection, then overlook other parts that are also worn. When a tie rod end breaks on a Ford car, for example, the other one is just as old and just as worn, but they often get overlooked, resulting in the "same" noise, then failure, a few weeks later.

In the case of noises, it is appropriate to ask for the mechanic to go with you on a short test drive so you can point out the noise and any related clues or observations. Be clear that noise must be gone for the repair to be considered completed. The mechanic should be able to suggest possible causes and in some cases, multiple methods of repair, but do not hold him to dollar amounts. If he guesses too low, he may be inclined to neglect important items in an attempt to stay under that amount. If he guesses too high, we have all run into people who incorrectly assume we cut corners involving their safety or the repair's reliability if the final bill is considerably lower than the guess. The mechanic's job is to identify the needed repairs, and he involves the parts department where they calculate the cost of the parts. The service writer takes all of that to calculate a more accurate repair estimate.

You might be allowed to ride along on the final test drive when the mechanic verifies the repairs, but most of the time, since time is money to the mechanic and the business, that may take place before they can find you. Or, ... In some cases the mechanic will not know if the problem is solved yet. This happened to me quite often with alignments. Some people would come in with mismatched tires, sagged springs, or body damage, and expect me to make the car not pull to one side on a straight road. Those things had to be offset by adjustments that were not "in specs", and were usually a trial and error affair. It could take two or three test drives before I thought the customer would be happy. Once I was satisfied, that was the last test drive, so the customer would not know he was satisfied until he paid for the repair and drove the car himself. At that point, if he still was not satisfied, that could have been avoided by refusing to do the alignment until matched tires were installed or the springs were replaced. As long as I am on this off-topic, understand we prefer to align cars with the old tires so we can "read" the wear patterns to insure we're correcting any related issues. The proper thing to do then is explain to the owner the alignment was adjusted to specs, and any pulling to one side will be gone once they install new tires.

As a last resort, there is a tool called the "chassis ear" that is designed just for this type of problem. It is a set of six microphones, a switch box, and headphones. You attach the microphones to suspect parts, then drive around while listening and switching between the microphones to narrow down where the noise is originating from. Be aware a lot of mechanics have never seen or even heard of this tool. Suspension and alignment specialists use them for locating causes of squeaks, clunks, and rattles. The original model used all wired microphones. There are newer models that use some wireless mics. You might find this tool at an auto parts store that rents or borrows tools. The guys who drive the tool trucks and visit each repair shop once a week have them too or can get them. You can even find them on Amazon for a much lower price.
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Wednesday, February 7th, 2018 AT 3:08 PM
Tiny
TURKEYTOES
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Thanks a lot Caradiodoc,

Looks like you covered pretty much everything. Thanks for your help and education.

I'll talk to her about your suggestion to take it back to the mechanic that installed the right bearing and about the other suggestions you have about how to handle his re-inspection.

Good advice!

With my regards
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Friday, February 9th, 2018 AT 7:36 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 46,594 POSTS
Please let us know what you find. We are interested to see what it is.

Cheers, Ken
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Monday, February 12th, 2018 AT 11:33 AM
Tiny
TURKEYTOES
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I'll do that Ken - she hasn't done anything about getting it fixed yet
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Monday, February 12th, 2018 AT 12:44 PM

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