Starts but cuts off immediately

Tiny
ED GRAND AM
  • MEMBER
  • 1996 PONTIAC GRAND AM
  • 2.4L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 60,000 MILES
I bought this vehicle with a supposed bad fuel pump. I have found my problem is not fuel system related. New fuel pump, filter and regulator. Still same issue. The battery was new but totally dead when I bought the car. After charging battery, I found that when you turn the key on, the fuel pump stages as it should and the only instrument light that comes on is the check engine light. Fuel gauge works but no idiot lights. When you turn the switch to start, the engine fires, stumbles for just a second, then dies, the check engine light goes out and the engine will not fire at all until the key is turned off and then back on to stage the fuel pump again. I think someone had been investigating before because of evidence I have found with dash screws out and/or loose etc. Do you have any idea of where/ what to look for etc? Im stumped right now. Oh, all the exterior lights come on with the key, not just the daytime running lights. Thanks. Please help.
Friday, October 11th, 2019 AT 8:16 AM

7 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,176 POSTS
Welcome to 2CarPros.

The idea that it starts, shudders, then stalls makes me think of a problem with the crankshaft position sensor. This sensor is responsible for sending a signal to the power-train control module. Based on the signal, the PCM then determines ignition timing, spark distribution, and fuel injection timing. Have you checked the sensor?

Here are directions for removal and replacement of the sensor. If it is failing, it could be the cause of the running issue. The attached picture correlates with the directions.

____________________________________

1996 Pontiac Grand AM L4-144 2.4L DOHC VIN T SFI
Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement
Vehicle Powertrain Management Sensors and Switches - Powertrain Management Sensors and Switches - Computers and Control Systems Crankshaft Position Sensor Service and
CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR REPLACEMENT

See pic 1

REMOVE OR DISCONNECT
1. Disconnect the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) sensor harness connector at the sensor.
2. Remove the CKP sensor to block bolt.
3. Remove the CKP sensor from the engine.

INSTALL OR CONNECT

NOTE: inspect the sensor O-Ring for wear, cracks or leakage. Replace if necessary. Lubricate the new O-Ring with engine oil before installing.

1. Install the CKP sensor into the block.
2. Install the CKP sensor to block bolt.
- Tighten the bolt to 10 Nm (88 lb in).
3. Connect the CKP sensor harness connector.

__________________________________

Here are a few links you may find both interesting and helpful:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-crank-shaft-angle-sensor-works

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/crankshaft-angle-sensor-replacement

_______________________________

Let me know if this helps or if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe
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Saturday, October 12th, 2019 AT 9:11 PM
Tiny
ED GRAND AM
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
I guess I'm skeptical at the moment. Would that have anything to do with not having power to the warning lights, including the security system? There is no power to the ABS, battery indicator, security lockout, oil pressure light, and so forth. Only the check engine light comes on. Also full exterior lighting comes on. Not just the daytime running lights.
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Sunday, October 13th, 2019 AT 11:27 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,176 POSTS
Welcome back:

No sir, nothing to do with the lights you mentioned. Have you checked all fuses? There is a fuse in the vehicle specific to the instrument cluster. See pic 1. The reason I doubt that is an issue is because the check engine light works. The power from that fuse is for the cluster. See pic 2

Since you have the check engine light working, I suspect there may be an issue with the cluster itself, but I don't see how that would prevent the engine from running. Is it possible for you to record what is happening and upload it for me to see and hear?

Also, I want you to try something. Just in case the security system has it shut down, do this. Turn the key to the run position and leave it there for 10 to 15 minutes and then see if it starts. I realize you have no light coming on, so the immobilizer could have it shut down and we wouldn't know.

Joe
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Sunday, October 13th, 2019 AT 8:29 PM
Tiny
ED GRAND AM
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
Oh you have got to hear this one. I checked power to the cluster. All was good. Grounds included. I pulled the cluster and took the circuit board off to check for bad circuits and lights. Found someone had been there before me. The idiot had crammed tissue paper into all the openings except the check engine space which blocked the light from coming through. So. I cleaned it out, reassembled the cluster, plugged it in and everything comes on nice and bright. However, I still have the same problem. I am going to try resetting the pass lock again to see if the issue gets resolved. I'll let you know the results but, do you have any other ideas if that does not work? The theft light does come on and it's solid, not flashing and does not go out. All other lights are on also. ABS, oil, brake, battery, check engine, theft, coolant level. All stay on except check engine light when key is turned to start then back to run.
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Friday, October 18th, 2019 AT 7:43 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,176 POSTS
Welcome back:

Wow! What is wrong with people anymore. I hate to say it, but I believe it.

The theft light is my concern. However, the good news is that the engine light goes off as it should.

Try the 10 minute trick to see if the theft light turns off. If it does, it should start at that point and then we will have confirmed that as the problem.

I will watch for your reply.

Take care,
Joe
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Friday, October 18th, 2019 AT 7:55 PM
Tiny
ED GRAND AM
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
Well the 10 minute thing and the 30 minute reset has not worked. I checked voltage and I think I have found bad results and need to know ideas from this point. White wire going to key cylinder has 10.8 volts on it from the instrument cluster instead of 12. The yellow signal wire I was told should have 5 volts on it but it only shows 1.8. When the key is turned to the start position there is no change. It's still 1.8 and never 5 volts from the cluster. What's your thoughts about it now? Security light never blinks. It just stays on solid until the key is turned off. Could it be the person messed up the cluster?
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Sunday, October 20th, 2019 AT 7:04 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,176 POSTS
Welcome back:

Anything is possible. Since there seems to be a voltage problem, the best thing to do is trace the wire back to where it gets power and see if the issues starts there.

Let me know.

Joe
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Sunday, October 20th, 2019 AT 9:27 PM

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