96 Plym Voyager gas in oil not starting gas and spark presen

Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
  • 1996 PLYMOUTH VOYAGER

96 voyager 3.0 engine has good spark getting fuel, but does not even act like it will start, plugs are wet with fuel when pulled like it is flooded. It has fuel in the oil. After 3 seconds of cranking the fuel will ignite in the oil filling hole with a lighter. Not 100% sure if timing is dead on or if compression levels are low. It was running fine parked it for 3 or 4 days (cold weather) then it would not start. Could it possibly be computer it only had 2 codes 12 and 14. Or is this an injector problem?

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Friday, March 16th, 2007 AT 11:02 PM

30 Replies

Tiny
KIN CHAN
  • MEMBER

Definitely a fuel ctrl problem. Do this--> place a pressure gage at the fuel testing port. Key on engine off ---> watch the fuel pressure. It gotta be more than 30 psi --> then key off. Let see if it will hold a residual pressure. If it doesn't. Then it means somehow ur in between ur injectors and ur return is leaking. How, why and where --> msg me after ur do the test.

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Saturday, March 17th, 2007 AT 1:44 AM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
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There is no fuel testing port.(On the supply line or fuel rail) Do they make a pressure tester that hooks into the gas line at the quick connect? There is a service port on the return line that says -->"EVAP SERVICE PORT. 1PSI MAXIMUM. REGULATED PRESSURE ONLY." But I cannot test for 30 psi at this point, right? I unhooked the return line at the end of the fuel rail, keyed on and off several times then cranked for 10 to 15 seconds, no fuel what so ever at this point. I unhooked the fuel line at the quick connect supply side keyed on and have lots of fuel at this point. I will try to find a pressure tester that will hook up inline.

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Saturday, March 17th, 2007 AT 3:42 PM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
  • MEMBER

EVAP is another systemm. What size motor. There's 4 different motor. Msg me when u get some answer. Of course there is everything to tap into the system.I doubted u wanna spend $400 for a 1/2 behind professional tester kit. Msg me back.

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Saturday, March 17th, 2007 AT 4:11 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
  • MEMBER

3.0 V6, I cannot see that it has a return fuel line then. Is there a pressure regulater somewhere on the engine?

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Saturday, March 17th, 2007 AT 4:24 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
  • MEMBER

Could this 3.0 V6 engine 96 plymoth voyager be a returnless fuel system with the pressure regulated at the pump with a pressure sensor that could be malfunctioning. And if so wouldn't it throw some trouble codes if the sensor is bad?

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Saturday, March 17th, 2007 AT 7:14 PM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
  • MEMBER

3.0 should have a schrader vale which u can tap a pressure gage in there. It is a return system. It is on the supply side on the injector rail. Do what I suggest and msg me if u have some result.

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Saturday, March 17th, 2007 AT 8:41 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
  • MEMBER

Using the following test procedure I had a 12V test light on the injector harness of 1 injector it did not flash, maybe a small pulsation but the light was constant on, maybe the computer is sending fuel to all injectors all time? Still waiting on as pressure tester. And this is a returnless system.

TESTING

Unplug the injector electrical connector.

Using an ohmmeter, test the injector resistance across the injector terminals. The reading should be approximately 12 ohms at 68 F (20 C).

If the resistance falls outside specifications, replace the faulty injector.

If the resistance is within specifications, proceed with the testing.

Place a 12 volt test lamp across the injector's electrical connector terminals. Watch the test lamp while cranking the engine and compare with the following:

If the test lamp does not flash, check the power feed and ground circuits between the PCM and the injector connector. Refer to the wiring diagrams in Chassis Electrical for wire colors. If the circuits are faulty, repair them. If the circuits are OK, test the engine control system using the Chrysler DRB, or equivalent scan tool.

If the test lamp flashes, proceed with the testing.

Check for fuel delivery at the suspect injector by removing the injector from the fuel rail and check for fuel and/or restrictions in the rail or injector fuel inlet. Compare your results with the following:

If there is no fuel present at the injector, replace the plugged injector, or clean the restricted passage, as necessary.

If there is fuel present at the injector, proceed with the testing.

With the injector removed from the fuel rail, connect a 12 volt source to one terminal on the injector connector and a ground wire to the other terminal. The injector should click each time the ground wire is connected and disconnected to and from the terminal.

If the injector clicks, it is OK. If it does not click, it must be replaced.

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Sunday, March 18th, 2007 AT 11:15 AM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
  • MEMBER

4got to tell u remove all spark plugs, disable ignition and injectors crank engine to dry out. Then change oil b4 restart. Cuz u wash all oil into the cylinder and now u lose compression. Do a residual test and if it holds up. FIRE IT RIGHT AWAY. Ur car should start. Ifit doesn't hold pressure.U gotta find the leak. HEEEEEE HAWWWWW

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Sunday, March 18th, 2007 AT 3:50 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
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Ok I finally found and bought a pressure tester that hooks inline, Ok it pressures up to 45 to 52 with key on. Cranking it pulsates a little 7 to 10 psi variance. ----With pressure at 50 (key on once), (then key off and wait) it blead off 4 psi in 20 to 25 minutes. No leaks that I can see. Can you explain again in a different way about the oil washing into the cylinder and losing compression. How do I disable the fuel injectors, the plugs are to hard to reach just to unpulg them.

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Sunday, March 18th, 2007 AT 10:03 PM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER

Washed up cylinders-check the compression or do a leakdown test to confirm leakage or do the vacuum gauge technique

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Sunday, March 18th, 2007 AT 10:43 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
  • MEMBER

What is the vaccum gauge technique?

This is what I found on washed out cylinders-->
Consecutive low compression in all cylinders could mean that the problem of fuel washed cylinders exists. This means that the engine has had too much fuel introduced into it and all of the oil has been washed off the cylinder walls. The oil creates a sealing effect between the piston and ring assemblies and the cylinder walls of the engine block. Without this thin layer of oil, the engine compression would be allowed to escape into the crankcase. This is common with an engine that has a 'flooding' problem.

? And if I change the oil and dry out the cylinders, will the condition of to much fuel still exist, and be back at square one. Or do I need to further diagnose the constant voltage at the fuel injector wire harness and correct this before any other tests?

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Sunday, March 18th, 2007 AT 11:17 PM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER

Lets try the coolant temperature sensor-check its resistances warm and cold after the oil change don't forget a new filter.

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Sunday, March 18th, 2007 AT 11:34 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
  • MEMBER

It might be somthing I don't know but what does the coolant temp. Sensor have anything to do with this?

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Monday, March 19th, 2007 AT 1:17 AM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER

The CTS is like the choke assy on a Carb-this is where the computer base itself on initial start-for fuel demand during open loop phase-before the oxygen sensors takes over the A/F mixture.

When stuck on open loop and does not switch to closed loop the computer will dump fuel causing it to run rich.

Check your fuel pressure regulator and fuel return line

What am trying to do here is to knock that flooding problem out before you go deep 6 on compression problem.

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Monday, March 19th, 2007 AT 5:55 AM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
  • MEMBER

I think Raz and I both goin the same direction. I think we both went way outta line. Its fair to explain or predict some possibility for any car problems. Or even advice some car owners how to test out a problematic area. Not 101 mechanic overnite.I can't teach my lube techs how to nail down a no start overnite. How r we able to get him fix his car.

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Monday, March 19th, 2007 AT 8:34 AM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
  • MEMBER

Ok I tested the coolant temp sensor it read close to 0.10 with ohm meter cold in the vehicle, should I take it out and get it hot in water then test it again hot. I already tested the pressure regulator with fuel pressure testor it is working properly @50 psi. I uhooked the fuel line again pulled half the spark plugs and cranked it to dry it out, put a little oil in three cyl.S put plugs back in and it fired 3 or 4 times, with a little start fluid in air intake. After all this with fuel line unhooked all the time the vapors will ignite over and over again in the valve cover. Probably from the fuel in the oil? I also tried to jump the connector to the CTS across it self and left it unplugged to try and fool the computer that the engine was warm, but the dash temp remained at cold, the sensor is right by the neck where the radiator hose connects. And this is a returnless fuel system. 96 3.0 voyager.

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Monday, March 19th, 2007 AT 2:07 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
  • MEMBER

Had a bad ohm meter first test. Heres the reading for 2nd test --->

PROCEDURE
With the engine at normal operating temperature, approximaterly 200 F (93 C), the ohmmeter should read approximately 700-1000 ohms. (COULDN'T TESXT THIS ENGINE DOES NOT RUN)

With the engine at room temperature, approximately 70 F (21 C), the ohmmeter should read approximately 7000-13,000 ohms. (I GOT A READING OF 12,700 AND IT WAS ABOUT 70 DEGRESS OUTSIDE)

If not within specifications, replace the engine coolant temperature sensor.

Test the resistance of the wiring harness between PCM terminal 26 and the sensor wiring harness connector. Also check for continuity between PCM connector terminal 43 and the sensor wiring harness connector. If the resistance measures greater than 1 ohm, repair the wiring harness as necessary.

(26 TO CTS CONNECTOR WAS 1.7 OHMS)
(43 TO CTS CONNECTOR WAS.8 OHMS)

HELP?

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Tuesday, March 20th, 2007 AT 12:08 PM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
  • MEMBER

.*& &* &%& %*& * & % #$@.

Hey knight. It said here u are tech level 1 and I am level 4. How's this whole thing come about?.I was thinking all alongu just some regular novice car owner.

Anyway. If ur residual pressure hold. Then tell me how u gonna get flood again. If not. Just step on the gas pedal all the way don't let go and keep cranking till it start running. Simple enuff?

Ras! Where are u. Explain this tech level system to me.I AM LOST!

MORE HEEEE. HAWWWWWWWWWWWW!

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Tuesday, March 20th, 2007 AT 8:12 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
  • MEMBER

Hey kin I don't know whats going on all I know is you were helping me then ras joined in and I kinda got lost on what yhou guys wanted me to test next so I was just wainting on a response, I don't know how I changed to a tech level 1 I was new to the forum when u started helpin me. How did you get to be a tech level 4?

So I'm trying to find out how its flooding itself, the only thing I can come up with is the test I did on the fuel injector wires, I hooked up 12V test light to one of them and it pulsated while cranking and the test procedure i'm going off of says it is supposed to flash on and off, So im thinking that maybe the injectors are getting a signal for fuel all the time and all dumping fuel simotaneously, --> I've already tried flooring it a few different times, no luck! I havent changed the oil yet to see if it will start because I am still hoping to pinpoint the flooding problem. Ras had me check the CTS it checked out OK, you had me do a fuel pressure test it held 50 psi for 15 minutes

What next?

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Tuesday, March 20th, 2007 AT 9:34 PM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
  • MEMBER

U've gotta do exactly what I prescribed. No more no less. Not 1/2 way. If u dry up the cylinder. Oil it do a compression and verfyi its got good comp pressure. Then key on engine off and key off chk pressure hold (which proof u've got NO LEAK). If u have no leaks.U've gotta able to start the engine.
When u crank --> I'VE TOLD U TO HOLD UR PEDAL TO THE FLOOR TILL IT FIRE UP AND RUN! NOT PUMP IT A FEW TIMES. And by the way. Where u get that injector pulse procedure.
Thats junk man.

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Wednesday, March 21st, 2007 AT 2:33 AM

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