Will not start

Tiny
TENNO89
  • MEMBER
  • 1988 CHRYSLER LE BARON
  • 2.2L
  • 4 CYL
  • TURBO
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 114,000 MILES
I put a new timing belt on and while I was at it I put on new plugs, wires, distributor cap, coil, rotor button, distributor pickup (stator), new radiator, rebuilt cylinder head, new Bosch injectors, and a Bosch fuel pump.

It will not start. It acts like it wants to but just will not.
Saturday, August 26th, 2017 AT 1:18 PM

10 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,742 POSTS
Have you checked for fuel pressure and steady spark? Do you see a cone-shaped spray of fuel from the injector? Do you hear the fuel pump run for one second when you turn on the ignition switch?

I do not remember what the hoses look like at the fuel pump, but I can tell you on my 1988 Grand Caravan, the supply and return hoses are different sizes, and I mixed them up, twice! Once when I replaced the rusted tank, and again when I put in a new pump. And I am supposed to be the expert.

There is a special tool used to set the timing belt tension. It is a weight on an arm about eight inches long. If you did not use that, the belt may have jumped a tooth or two. On this engine, you will still get injector pulses, spark, and the fuel pump will run during cranking, but the engine will not run or it will run poorly and with low power. Everything is triggered off the pickup assembly in the distributor.

The distributor is driven off an intermediate shaft that is run by the timing belt. The intermediate shaft has a mark to align it with a mark on the crankshaft sprocket. The 2.5L uses a balance shaft, and that has to be timed right to prevent vibrations. The 2.2L still uses that shaft to run the oil pump, but it also runs the distributor, so sprocket timing has to be right. Some people overlook that and just set the position of the camshaft sprocket. On older engines the distributor was run by the camshaft, and that is what people are accustomed to checking for timing. If the intermediate sprocket is off by one or maybe two teeth, you should be able to rotate the distributor enough to make up for that. If you need more than that, fix the sprocket and belt. The distributor does not use a helical gear, so you cannot pull it and turn the shaft. The shaft only goes in two ways.

The good news is this is a common sense, really tough, non-interference engine, so the valves will not be damaged if cam timing is wrong.
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Sunday, August 27th, 2017 AT 1:59 AM
Tiny
TENNO89
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Hey, thanks for the reply. I have checked the fuel and it gets pressure. Both upon startup, and I pushed on the needle valve on the fuel rail when cranking and it spurts.

I bought that special tool early on and made sure that my mechanic set the tension correctly. I did *a lot* of research on replacing the timing belt on the 2.2l before I started.

The first mechanic that I used did not align all the marks up, but somehow the engine would start and run really rough. My buddy (my new mechanic) took it apart and redid everything. All marks aligned correctly, but it will not run at all now.

I paid special attention to put the new fuel pump in the way I took out the old one.

As far as spark, it is only getting an intermittent spark when cranking.
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Sunday, August 27th, 2017 AT 10:56 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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Look at the Hall Effect pickup assembly in the distributor. The 2.2L / 2.5L are not known for this, but if the bushing the shaft rides on is worn, the shaft and reluctor wheel will wobble around. There will be no spark when the reluctor wheel's blades move too far away from the sensor. Be aware too, the pickup assembly has a very high failure rate. It's not unheard of for a new one to fail.

Check if you have full battery voltage on the ignition coil's positive terminal during cranking. If that is low, suspect arced contacts in the automatic shutdown, (ASD) relay. The next step would be to use a scanner in automatic test mode to fire the ignition coil. If the spark is weak or sporadic, troubleshoot that circuit or try a different coil.
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Monday, August 28th, 2017 AT 7:18 PM
Tiny
TENNO89
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SO, IF I JST BOUGHT A NEW DISTRIBUTOR, IT'D ELIMINATE ALL THT U MENTIONED IN REFERENCE 2 IT? AND I'LL TRY ALL U SAID ABOUT TH COIL.
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Monday, August 28th, 2017 AT 7:33 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,742 POSTS
You're right, except that is likely a rebuilt distributor, and it was assembled by someone who doesn't necessarily understand how they work or what can go wrong. It is likely your distributor is fine, but don't assume anything.

Along that line of thinking, the pickup assembly is only responsible for spark timing, and nothing else. It's up to the Engine Computer to provide a good ground for the ignition coil, then it's up to the coil to develop the required spark voltage. The ground between the battery's negative post and the body affects the ignition system, as well as the lights, fuel pump, etc. That is different than the fat ground cable going to the engine block. That cable is for the starter. That means you can have a ground problem even though the engine cranks just fine. This is where the ignition coil actuator test with a scanner would let you diagnose that system without having to crank the engine.
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Monday, August 28th, 2017 AT 7:58 PM
Tiny
TENNO89
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PLZ ELABORATE AS 2 WAT A IGNITION COIL ACTUATOR TEST IS.
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Tuesday, August 29th, 2017 AT 6:06 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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Scanners are "bidirectional", meaning they receive and display information from the computers, and you can talk back to them and command them to do things. For an injector or an ignition coil, Chrysler calls that their "Actuator Test Mode", (ATM). Other brands of scanners do the same thing but don't give it a fancy name.

I have a Chrysler DRB3 scanner for all of my vehicles, and a couple of older DRB2s for my older vehicles. On those, I select "Engine Computer", "Actuator Test Mode", "Inputs and Outputs", "Ignition Coil", from drop-down menus. The scanner will command the Engine Computer to fire the ignition coil about once every two seconds. That lets you work in that circuit without having to crank the engine.

If you would have enough use of a scanner, you can find DRB2s on eBay for less than a hundred bucks. They require a cartridge specific to each vehicle. There could be a dozen cartridges to cover every model and year from 1983 through 1995, but instead, look for a '94 or '95 "Supercartridge". That one cartridge covers almost all the years and models back to '83.

The DRB3 can be found on eBay too. A lot of independent shops bought them years ago because with an extra plug-in card, they will do emissions-related stuff on any brand of car sold in the U.S. Starting with '96, models. It became obsolete on some Chrysler models in 2004, and on all of them by 2008. You might find one of these at an independent shop that wants to buy a newer scanner. The complete kit used to cost $6200.00. The price is a lot better now on eBay, but these only worked back to '96 or '98 models, depending on when you bought it. There is a "Supercard 2" that lets it work on '94 to '97 models, and a "Supercard 1" that lets it work on '83 through '93 models. Those cards used to cost $440.00 each, but now they're real cheap. Either one just plugs in on the bottom of the scanner similar to stuffing a floppy disc into an old computer. You can leave it plugged in all the time. The Supercard 2 is the one that lets you work on other car brands, but it only reads live sensor data and diagnostic fault codes. It lets you do everything on Chrysler products.

A lot of people get by without ever owning or using a scanner, but once you play with it and see what it can do, you'll feel like a carpenter without a level if you don't have one. He'll get the job done, but it will take a lot longer.
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Tuesday, August 29th, 2017 AT 7:05 PM
Tiny
TENNO89
  • MEMBER
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MY BUDDY HAS A SCANNER. I'LL GET HIM 2 SEE WAT HE CAN DO. THANX A TON!
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Tuesday, August 29th, 2017 AT 8:30 PM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 42,895 POSTS
Please let us know what happens so it will help others.

Cheers, Ken
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Wednesday, August 30th, 2017 AT 12:36 PM
Tiny
TENNO89
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WILL DO! MANY THANX!
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Wednesday, August 30th, 2017 AT 1:13 PM

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