No spark

Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
  • 1994 LINCOLN TOWN CAR
  • 200,000 MILES
I have no spark. Changed relays, diode, checked fuses, ( hidden fusible link somewhere maybe in a wire!), New battery, cam sensor, crankshaft positioning sensor, coils, spark plugs, wires, ignition control module ( tried 2 from rock auto. Com), new computer! Old computer checked out fine with actron top of the line scan tool. Flash and ram 100%. No codes. Car cranks but no spark.
So this is what I'm down to. The starter cranks slowly. Either it is bad and is drawing too much current or the timing chain broke / slipped and the pistons are hitting the valves causing the starter to draw too much current. I plan on checking compression on all cylinders. What say you?
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Monday, March 20th, 2017 AT 8:12 PM

14 Replies

Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
Compression is a good place to start, if all the other stuff is fine then do that check battery for condition including load test as well most places do for free.

Check out the guide below, it may help

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system
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Tuesday, March 21st, 2017 AT 6:36 AM
Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
Hi hma. I think I should load test the battery. Today I will check the compression.
Two important questions:
1. I read in the electrical schematic in chilton on this car that it has a cylinder identification sensor. Maybe.?
2. This car ran perfectly before it was put aside for service with exception to the engine not being able to run at usual engine operating temp.
3. When I changed the spark plugs and wires I messed up on the wiring. When the car wouldn't start I checked my crummy work ( rare) and found about 3 -4 out of 8 were wrong! So now I'm a little worried that possibly trying to start this car with 3 - 4 out of 8 wires in the wrong position could have possibly caused the timing chain to slip a notch? Like I said, the car ran fine cold before I serviced it.
Also, I did check fuel pressure and it is 37 psi key on and I know I'm getting fuel in there cause I have a spark plug out but attached to wire and I can smell the fuel coming out of that cylinder.
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Tuesday, March 21st, 2017 AT 7:32 AM
Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
Apparently the cylinder I would sensor is the same as the cam sensor. Changed these, new delphis from rock auto.
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Tuesday, March 21st, 2017 AT 8:00 AM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
Before you disconnect the battery scan for codes first. See pics for firing order and coil hookup that may be your only problem that wouldn't cause the timing chain to jump unless it was a very hard backfire. See pics for routing etc. Pay attention to coils where wires plug in also #1 is on right bank not left.
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Tuesday, March 21st, 2017 AT 8:34 AM
Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
Hi hmac. Whew, glad to hear u don't think I jumped the chain. That would be pretty severe punishment for my mess up. No there was no backfire. I did scan for codes with the actron cp 9690 previously. None. Also computer was recognized and flash and ram were okay. I changed it anyhow and now have an a1 cardone unit that matches up for my computer number. Still no spark. I tried to do a compression test today but the brand new interstate megatron plus battery (their best) that I bought from their store and was manufactured a month or two ago couldn't even make it through the test without dying. I am charging it now and will bring it to azone for a load test. Then maybe I will buy a azone battery and get this one exchanged out at interstate and have it as a spare. Interstate used to be the best. It is the worst battery I ever bought in my life. Never used anything new that was this damn bad
As far as wiring diagram, thank you. However I have it from the chilton and the original shop manual I got from faxon. I triple checked my work and had my neighbor who used to be a shop foreman for NYC bus transit check it as well. I think I am wired up right now.
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Tuesday, March 21st, 2017 AT 11:22 AM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
Have you checked fuses and relay under hood yet sometimes that causes it to not start. I think it is to early for a security system but being a luxury car it may have one. Also check fuses inside car especially fuse 1 for PCM relay which supplies power to pcm it may have blown. Also check to see if inertia switch in trunk is shut off not letting fuel go.
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Tuesday, March 21st, 2017 AT 12:18 PM
Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
Hi hmac. Okay. Maybe the battery was not bad because after I charged it, Autozone checked it and said it was okay. I believe it was some type of load test because it was more than just checking the volts I believe. Not really a good answer but this is the best I have at this point for the battery. The new remy starter I installed 2 years ago is under warranty for free replacement with rockauto. Com / remy so why not change it obviously. Then I'll certainly know if the battery is an issue by how the new starter cranks. Also, if the battery dies by the time I finish my compression testing tomorrow then I will make it a spare and buy a different one. Maybe optima.
Yes I did check the fuses several times under hood and under dash. As far as the relay, changed the eec relay on the drivers side of the engine compartment and switched relay on the passenger side of the engine compartment with a known one next to it that works. Now, there may be a mistake. It seems they are the same relays. Maybe I should just go ahead and change it or at least better confirm the one I swapped into its place to check is an exact match
I did change the diode on the drivers side by the other relays and checked the diode with the multi-meter. Its okay.
I will check fuse 1 again just to make triple sure.
Fuel is going. Got 37 psi with key on and when engine is cranked with just one spark plug out you can smell the fuel. When I removed the plugs today, I can smell the fuel as well.

Good point about the security system. There is a factory one installed that is a shock sensor and starter inop. Checked both fuses a couple of days ago and one was blown 1 I was so happy 1 then I found out that the blown fuse was only to my siren. My next door neighbor the on disability ex shop foreman for NYC buses so he is not a fired shop foreman and I reviewed the schematic on the security unit and we both agreed that the security unit is only a starter kill and not an ignition kill as well regardless we jumped the starter kill with a paper clip and it worked as well as when it was not. When alarm was set it worked properly as a starter kill and when not set the starter works.
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Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017 AT 12:38 AM
Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
Hmac hey, when I was at autozone the rep said maybe there is something wrong with the alternator. I changed the alternator a couple of months ago and even without an alternator. If the battery is fully charged you should still get a spark on a first time start. The alternator does not really do anything unless the engine is running but then again. I wonder if the alternator is part of the spark circuit. I have to check my chilton electrical diagram again. Just wondered if you had an opinion on this?
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Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017 AT 12:46 AM
Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
Hmac, good point on the codes. I told you nothing came up but now I am remembering that the night the car had the shutdown problem when hot I tried to start it many times. By the time I was towed home the battery was low and within about 3 days died. It was about 4 years old so I ditched it. Should have checked the codes before it died. However I was like I already changed the ignition control module>. This has to be the crankshaft positioning sensor. I was wrong. After I put in the new battery the car started perfectly I drove it up on the driveway disconnected the battery and began to change the spark plugs and wires. Installed denso 8mm with ac delco double plat crank sensor and cam sensor. After this is when I went from cold run fine to no spark no start. Maybe the new crankshaft positioning sensor is bad. Possibly I should order another one.
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Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017 AT 1:00 AM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
I think you better have a pro look at this as you are now going in circles because you disconnected the battery no codes will show now. I Think there is something else wrong. Like a basic problem so what you should do if you don't want to go to a pro is to check for spark first. Your fuel pressure is good. Check coolant temp sensor should have 2200-2700 ohms resistance. Because of the system on your car it takes a breakout box to check it which you won't have I think the problem lies there. You can check your compression on all cylinders otherwise i'll h ave to pass this on.
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Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017 AT 6:39 AM
Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
Hi hmac. Is there even a breakout box for an obd1? I checked online and didn't see one. Anyway, I prob need an electrical specialist. I removed the spark plugs and couldn't get a spark with the two I had plugged to the wires so even with little resistance to the starter still no spark.
The compression was disturbing but nothing that would stop spark in my opinion. The compression was, starting from the drivers side rear to front : 110, 90, 95, 120. Starting from the passenger side, going from rear to front, 90, 60, 110, 145. I had changed the coolant temp sensor and the separate sensor for the dash reading last summer, about 9 months ago.
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Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017 AT 3:18 PM
Tiny
HMAC300
  • EXPERT
There is no breakout box for diy people some repair or dealers migh thave had it but the car being 20yrs old or more they probably won't. Your compression is for crap and that may be the sole reason it' snot starting to much of a variance between 1&2 6&7 to run.
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Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017 AT 4:39 PM
Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
Hmac. The ignition condensers. Left and right. My shop foreman friend and I reviewed the electrical schematic and came to the conclusion, this is the only reason why there would be no spark, short of a break in a wire at this point. These condensers are the ground for the coils and store the energy for each electrical pulse. When I had changed the spark plugs and wires, ( I had iridium plugs in previously) 40 k miles looked like 150k. The plugs were 13 thou over spec and the little electrodes were virtually gone. 40 k city miles is like 150k highway so I learned! The car has 140k but 40 is new York city driving so the car has like 250k miles even though 140 is on the odometer. I had denso wires on it before with ngk iridiums. The condensers got stressed with having to jump those gaps. I know when u put hotter coils on gm ignitions from the old days, u blow out condensers. Don't know if there are condensers to handle it. Anyway, I ordered the condensers today from the dealer for 25 bucks and am hoping for the best. I would have changed them previously but the friggin chilton said they were just radio capacitors. I didn't have a prob with the radio so I left them alone. I noticed those sobs right from the beginning and researched them with the radio bs info.
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Saturday, March 25th, 2017 AT 7:04 PM
Tiny
ROBERTMMALEK
  • MEMBER
Put in all Motorcraft parts and its up and running again. Thanks for the help
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Friday, December 7th, 2018 AT 6:09 AM

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